Lenore: So being the one to come from a practical perspective.
Several of my sessions with you over the coming days are not going to be
Lenore: strictly and solely on one
Lenore: path at one fold in the path. We're gonna we're gonna riff across a few of them.
Lenore: because that's kind of how it happens in real life. Right?
Lenore: So we're gonna have a bit of imagination.
Lenore: We're going to have a bit of intention, and we're going to have bit of action. Tonight.
Lenore: in thinking about this. a
Lenore: ethical engagement in a world in crisis.
Lenore: I often come back to
Lenore: the principle or the value that runs through so much of the Duma
Lenore: being non-harm
Lenore: Ahimsa! Non-harm.
Lenore: And actually, when I talk about non-harm again.
Lenore: we've already talked about how many of these things are on spectrums. They're not this or that, and I think of harm versus non-harm as having
Lenore: harmfulness, destructiveness down one end.
Lenore: kindness down the other.
Lenore: indifference probably just left of centre and non harm, just right of centre. So when I'm talking about non harm, I'm talking about that whole end of the spectrum between non-harm and kindness.
Lenore: And so.
Lenore: as I'm sure all of us
Lenore: are aware.
Lenore: non harm soaks through the Dhamma.
Lenore: So I want to talk tonight and do some reflections with you
Lenore: on the difference between not having an intention of harmfulness and having
an intention of non-harm.
Lenore: and, as I say, this will cut across
Lenore: application, imagination, and action, probably. But I'm going to use the word intention in the way that we think of it
Lenore: day-to-day.
Lenore: So if mindfulness, Sati is
awareness of
Lenore: essentially the past.
Lenore: because even there's not really any such thing as present moment awareness, because the moment that we become aware that
Lenore: the mind is agitated, you know that sensation's actually already passed so.
Lenore: But for the sake of practicality, let's say, mindfulness is awareness of present and past
Lenore: intention is in a way, an awareness of a possible future.
Lenore: Stephen talked this morning about it being imagination being a bridge between the contemplative life and and active life.
Lenore: And
Lenore: it's for me. It's that bridge between now and the future as well.
Lenore: my my intentions and my values now, and when I imagine the future, what can I bring into being. What can I bargain? What can I cultivate to bring it about?
Lenore: So the first thing as I, as I pondered this that came to me is that
Lenore: credible intentions
Lenore: are actively imagined.
Lenore: So this issue of imagination is really.
Lenore: really relevant. And they're they're mentally rehearsed
Lenore: in the field of organizational change which is kind of my background. I did psychology and organizational psychology.
Lenore: There's a model of values that
Lenore: distinguishes between espoused values
Lenore: and what are called values in action.
Lenore: So what is it that I think? And I say that I value? And what is it that if you were to watch me in my life you would deduce that I value from my actions
Lenore: so essentially. This, this is the extent to which we walk the talk.
Lenore: Now, what's
Lenore: how well aligned are those 2
Lenore: I used to I mentioned earlier. I used to teach leadership, and one of the things that
Lenore: I would find myself saying to them sometimes. And it was one of those things that really stuck with people. It's one of the things that
Lenore: sometimes my leadership participants would get to the end of the program which would usually go for a few months and say, You know.
Lenore: that's really stuck with me. is this little saying? And I can't even remember where I first heard it myself, but
Lenore: it goes like this. Your actions speak so loudly. I can't hear what you say.
Lenore: so if we've got a very, very small
Lenore: gap between his spouses values and venues in action. Obviously there's no conflict.
Lenore: But if there's a big gap between what we say we value and what we actually do.
Lenore: What we do is probably
Lenore: a better indicator of what we actually valued.
Lenore: And I want to suggest that imagination
Lenore: is a key part to closing that gap
Lenore: to helping us walk the talk.
Lenore: And that's obviously critical to this issue of engaging ethically in a world in crisis.
Lenore: Can you share a little sports story with you to bring alive how important this imagination is when it comes to
Lenore: impact on what you actually do.
Lenore: A couple of years ago I went to compete at the World indoor championship. So for those of you who don't know my sport is track and field. I'm a hurdler and sprinter
Lenore: jumper and occasional hip athlete. This particular year I had
Lenore: I'd had a bit of a nightmare time. I'd contracted the Ross River virus, and then. So I wasn't. I wasn't at my best.
Lenore: but
Lenore: I decided to go anyway, because they're really good fun and fantastic experiences. And so I went to world indoors. It was in Poland. And I thought to myself, the thing with Ross River virus was you get really fatigued?
Lenore: So there was just no way I was going to perform at my best in, you know, the 200, or I decided not even to run the 400,
Lenore: but I thought the 60 metre hurdles. I might be able to do okay at that. because it's not very long.
Lenore: you know, if I can do a good job of the first 2 hurdles. If I can really nail those like, get over those really quickly.
Lenore: you know. Who knows if any fatigue might hit me after that I don't know, but even if I can at least do that, maybe I'll have a shot.
Lenore: So I'd mentally rehearsed it
Lenore: many, many times
Lenore: getting out fast getting to that first hurdle, getting over it fast, getting to that second hurdle fast.
Lenore: and in these imaginings I knew I was going to have the current world champion, probably one of the lanes outside of me.
Lenore: and because at that time I didn't actually train for the sprint hurdles. I just kinda long hurdles was my main thing, and I'd just go on. I'd do the sprint hurdles.
Lenore: So she she I thought, you know, maybe she'll catch me after her 2,
Lenore: and you know, if I run out of
Lenore: if II get fatigued, or whatever there's nothing I can do about it. So all I did was, I'm really excited some of these first 2 hills.
Lenore: So come the race, and I nailed those first 2 hurdles. I was in front by hurdle, too.
Lenore: at which point I took my feet off the foot off the pedal, and she passed me
Lenore: because I'd only imagined the first 2 hurdles.
Lenore: and in this, in this imagined scenario. There was also the possibility that she might pass me after the second hurdle. So actually, in my imagination.
Lenore: I'd let her pass me.
Lenore: Now this is the real thing.
Lenore: Mental rehearsal for technical skills.
Lenore: It actually works.
Lenore: If you mentally rehearse something, how how to do something physically.
Lenore: you actually get better at it. I won't get you fitter.
Lenore: but but it can get you more proficient at a technical skill.
Lenore: So mental rehearsal bakes it in.
Lenore: and this is true for
Lenore: our intentions as well.
Lenore: not just in sport and physical movement.
Lenore: but in how we are in the world.
Lenore: So this imagining
Lenore: of what our intention might look like if we were to embody it.
Lenore: It's a mentally active process.
Lenore: It involves imagining situations that you're going to face or likely to face and picturing how you would like to behave
Lenore: in that scenario.
Lenore: Now, of course, it may or may not represent what actually happens. But
Lenore: I would suggest that without it, without having done that active imagining. you're more likely to blow with the worldly winds.
Lenore: We know about those worldly winds.
Lenore: We're more likely to be influenced by our biases of perspective.
Lenore: and if it gets stressful
Lenore: we're less likely to behave in line with our values and more likely to chicken out.
Lenore: So Stephen mentioned this morning the old saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. and this points to the common pattern of a seed of an intention being present. but that's where it ended.
Lenore: It wasn't cultivated
Lenore: through imagining.
Lenore: through mental rehearsal, through, or it may be planning as well.
Lenore: So the seed. The seed wasn't tended to. It lay dormant and failed to grow into the powerful internal condition. We talked about internal conditions and external conditions coming together to produce our
Lenore: experience last night. so
Lenore: our our intentions can become powerful internal conditions. But we need to cultivate them.
Lenore: and if we don't, they become those kind of intentions that pave the road to hell.
Lenore: Actually, I noted. And this is from the you're talking about jumping across a few folds. This is from.
Lenore: and a section in Stephen's pre-reading. On application. he said, application is applying oneself to creating the inner and outer conditions for reactivity, not to determine our lives
Lenore: and for enabling liberative skills and virtues to play a greater role.
Lenore: So it's applying oneself to creating the inner and outer conditions for reactivity, not to determine our lives. And what I'm suggesting is that
Lenore: if we don't cultivate an intention through this mental
Lenore: activity that we're not
Lenore: really growing, that into the powerful condition, internal condition. It can be
Lenore: so. As I say, one of the most fundamental values permeating the Dhamma is non-harm, non-harm to kindness.
Lenore: and so I want to tease apart the difference between not having an intention of harm
Lenore: and an intention of non harm to kindness. So the former, not having an intention of harm
Lenore: doesn't actually require me to do anything.
Lenore: I can just let stuff happen.
Lenore: And as long as I'm not personally actively contributing to it.
Lenore: no problem.
Lenore: however, that attitude allows harm to go on around me.
Lenore: and doesn't require me to do anything to mitigate it.
Lenore: It allows me to let opportunities to prevent.
Lenore: mitigate or ameliorate harm. It allows me to let those opportunities go through to the keeper.
Lenore: For those who are joining from perhaps other countries that don't play cricket.
Lenore: Letting something go through to the keeper just means that it's a cricketing term where the batter just doesn't even bother trying to hit the ball.
Lenore: and just don't engage with it at all. You just let it go through, and the wicketkeeper catches it. So if we just have an intention, no, no intention of harm. We can let those opportunities
Lenore: to insulate against harm, to ameliorate against harm. to mitigate harm. We can let them go through to the keeper.
Lenore: So you probably all had some version of this kind of small example. You're sitting on a bus. woman sitting across the the aisle from you
Lenore: agitated person gets on.
Lenore: says something rude to the, to the person across the aisle from you, and their
Lenore: visibly
Lenore: kind of shaken by it, maybe feeling a bit threatened.
Lenore: Now, if you don't have an attitude of harm, you can just ignore that. I didn't do it. It's nothing to do with me.
Lenore: If I'm practicing an attitude. If I'm holding an attitude, if I'm cultivating an attitude of non-harm, there's an opportunity to do a little harm. Mitigation.
Lenore: it might be as as little as catching her eye across the aisle and kind of going.
Lenore: You know. What was that about
Lenore: to let her know I'm here. I see you. I saw what happened, and it's not your fault
Lenore: if you've ever been a recipient of that kind of situation, having some kind stranger kind of reach out to you and go. Hmm!
Lenore: You know
Lenore: that, wasn't you? It can. It can reduce your anxiety quite a bit now that's just a really small example. but the the attitude of non-harm. If we're going to genuinely cultivate it
Lenore: would say, Hey, I can. I can do something here
Lenore: that might in this case it's just, you know. Bring a bit of anxiety down a little bit. Maybe
Lenore: so. If there is an opportunity to mitigate the harm in some way.
Lenore: even to a small extent, then I'm predisposed to take it
Lenore: if I really absorb that as my intention.
Lenore: Now, this is an unanticipated in the moment. Kind of example.
Lenore: that obviously, you're not going to plan for
Lenore: that. There are lots of harms that we can anticipate. and for these ones the thinking ahead meadows. it requires us to think ahead. to imagine what might come of the current causes and conditions.
Lenore: and to try and insulate
Lenore: where we can against harm. It requires us to notice to be mindful
Lenore: of factors that are relevant to that harm. Not having an intention of harm requires no such thoughtfulness.
Lenore: It doesn't require me to notice.
Lenore: So what I'm going to suggest is that we take a look at
Lenore: the idea about making non-harm a perception setting.
Lenore: I just made that out.
Lenore: So I'll tell you what I mean by that. So
Lenore: we need to devote headspace
Lenore: to imagining not just the consequences of our actions and our choices. but also to noticing the conditions around us.
Lenore: And if we have non-harm as one of our perception settings. we're going to start noticing things that we didn't before. So, for example. I'm sure many people in the room and who are joining us online have
Lenore: been caregivers for infants.
Lenore: I don't have children myself, but I was 15 when my youngest brother was born.
Lenore: and so I participated in parenting.
Lenore: Imagine you have an infant crawling age infant crawling around your lounge room, and you see a marble
Lenore: on the floor. What are you gonna do with that marble?
Lenore: You're gonna pick it up
Lenore: because your perception setting says, Oh, marble dangerous to infant.
Lenore: Choking hazard.
Lenore: that same perception setting so that kind of lens that we're viewing through the the world through would also be looking at that glass vase that's sitting on a bench, that is, you know, arms reach height by the infant and going mmm, I might shift that vase
Lenore: so potential damage to infants
Lenore: becomes a part of your perception setting.
Lenore: You're mindful of the
Lenore: potential damage of various impacts around the house.
Lenore: If we haven't actively cultivated an intention of non-harm non-harm to kindness.
Lenore: Then we're practising an intention of allowing it.
Lenore: It's like rushing the infant to hospital and saying, Well, I didn't feed her the marble.
Lenore: It doesn't. It doesn't have that same element of agency about it.
Lenore: So
Lenore: I'm gonna share with you an example. I've always, for a variety of reasons been
Lenore: really oriented towards kindness to animals.
Lenore: had very strong heartfelt intentions about protecting them from cruelty and from harm.
Lenore: And so I practiced this perception setting quite a bit.
Lenore: So I notice conditions when I'm walking around in daily life that
Lenore: you know. Send off the alarm bells in that perception setting. So I'm going to share a few of them with you. See how many of them you recognise?
Lenore: Whenever I see bits of thread lying on the ground. So bits of cotton or nylon, or what have you? And you would be surprised how many there are when you actually start looking?
Lenore: I pick it up, and I put it in the bin. and the reason is, what I've noticed
Lenore: is a lot of birds, for some reason, get thread
Lenore: wrapped around their toes or their feet.
Lenore: and then obviously, they can't get it off.
Lenore: So over time it tightens. and as it tightens, the blood supply diminishes.
Lenore: and they end up, often losing those toes or feet, or even parts of legs, if it tightens. And you can tell from the way that they move, it's incredibly painful.
Lenore: So yeah, whenever I see thread on the ground that goes in the bin.
Lenore: any buckets or vessels with slippery, sloping sides.
Lenore: I leave face down because small lizards will often go in there, especially if there's some drops of water in there, or what have you? And then they can't get out. And I remember
Lenore: one time, years ago, seeing it was a beautiful big gecko I was living in Brisbane and had died. I'm guessing of dehydration in the bottom of a bucket that I'd left face up.
Lenore: and I thought to myself, right buckets they're planted into the perception settings of non-hull
Lenore: If I leave any kind of water vessel open to the environment. So, for example, I've got a little bird bath in my front yard
Lenore: I'll always leave a stick in it.
Lenore: That sort of leaning on the side of it, so that if any little critters fall in they can get on the stick and get themselves out.
Lenore: If I ever have a campfire which I do not do very often anymore, because I've unfortunately discovered how bad they are for the environment.
Lenore: Not to mention your own health. I know we all love campfires and the smell of smoke, but it's a little bit like breathing in Diesel fumes
Lenore: for our health. Unfortunately, anyway, occasionally
Lenore: only occasionally we we have one.
Lenore: but if we do, every piece of wood that goes on, that fire has been whacked
Lenore: so many times to make sure that any little critters that might be in there that are out before I stick it on the fire
Lenore: plastic bags. Obviously I see any of those blowing around around the streets. I pick those up. They can damage marine life.
Lenore: And lastly.
Lenore: defunct old
Lenore: spider's webs.
Lenore: I think there's something really sad about a living creature dying because it got caught in a trap of a creature that's not even there anymore.
Lenore: so you know, insects and things get caught in old spider webs that aren't even used anymore. And we need insects
Lenore: in our ecosystem.
Lenore: so there are some.
Lenore: There are some examples of, you know. If you've got a if you've really paid attention, if you've really
Lenore: and I can't say, you know, I have this same level of
Lenore: you know, intentional acuity with everything in my life, but it's an example of one where I have paid a lot of attention a lot of care where I can honestly say
Lenore: I have really strong and genuine incredible intentions around
Lenore: non harm.
Lenore: So an intention of non harm requires us to act on opportunities to prevent, minimize, or mitigate
Lenore: when those opportunities present themselves.
Lenore: not having an intention of harm doesn't.
Lenore: As long as it's not my doing, it's not my problem.
Lenore: So this means we have to pay attention to our environment. We have to be mindful
Lenore: when we're just walking around
Lenore: which we can't do. By the way, when
Lenore: we're looking at a phone.
Lenore: Trust me mad, seeing people do that.
Lenore: Those of you who read my book might remember the story I told in there about my parents who used to live on a farm.
Lenore: and they had a dog, lovely dog. His name was Jungle, and they were going away for a long weekend.
Lenore: My parents are a classic case of people who they didn't have an intention of harm with animals, but they also didn't have an intention of non harm. And anyway, so they're going away for a long weekend.
Lenore: They take off. They come back 3 days later. arrive home. and like. where's jungle?
Lenore: Nowhere to be seen.
Lenore: They go. They open the front door and out races, this very, very distressed dog. They'd locked him in the house.
Lenore: which was a real problem, because they had an eco toilet.
Lenore: so he couldn't even drink water out of the toilet.
Lenore: and they hadn't. They know he was in the house, so they didn't leave any water in the house for him, so he'd been stuck there in the house with no water for 3 days.
Lenore: Very, very distressing. Now.
Lenore: Never forget my dad telling this story as if it was an entertainment.
Lenore: you know. And I,
yeah.
Lenore: so it's a classic example of they didn't have an attitude of harm. They didn't have a value of harm to animals.
Lenore: But they certainly didn't have an attitude of non-home either. because value of non harm says
Lenore: insulate, mitigate.
Lenore: And they didn't even check to see where he was before they left. I mean to me, even leaving him on his own in a bush, setting for several days with no company in itself
Lenore: kind of harmful. But
Lenore: yeah, it's just a demonstration of that difference.
Lenore: Now, a couple of things before I'm gonna walk you through a bit of a reflection about your own intentions
Lenore: around non harm.
Lenore: The issue of courage has come up a couple of times already, and actually my session with you tomorrow night is on practicing courage.
Lenore: But I think it's important to point out with this that the intention of non-harm is not the same thing as never upsetting anyone
Lenore: again. If I use the example of parents.
Lenore: You know your kid wants breakfast, lunch, and dinner ice cream, you're going to upset him. Right?
Lenore: You can't care means sometimes you're going to upset some people
Lenore: so, especially those of us whose character structures involve pleasing people
Lenore: as a way of filling our needs for connection or belonging. We can be a little bit challenged by this one, because
Lenore: and it can be a a strong impetus to please, a strong impetus to not displease.
Lenore: and sometimes
Lenore: to genuinely, incredibly practice, the attitude of non-harm. We have to speak up.
Lenore: We have to stand in the way of home.
Lenore: we might have to say no.
Lenore: we might have to do our best to arrest harm in progress that we come across.
Lenore: So it's not. It's not necessarily always being
Lenore: giving people what they want or being nice.
Lenore: There is. It does require some courage sometimes. And then the other. The other thing I just wanna point out about
Lenore: credibly practicing this intention
Lenore: is that it's possibly never more acutely tested.
Lenore: Then when someone hurts us
Lenore: so the desire for revenge can can raise its head.
Lenore: which is
Lenore: a self-protective urge. That's kind of gone too far
Lenore: seeks to hurt in return.
Lenore: And while it's really important. Obviously, if we've been hurt, too. have compassion to self and look after oneself.
Lenore: If the if the desire for revenge to harm
Lenore: is arising.
Lenore: a really helpful question that I've found it usually means we're not willing to feel something.
Lenore: This that this situation has
Lenore: made is causing me to feel something that I'm not willing to feel
Lenore: so sometimes just simply asking myself the question, What is it?
Lenore: What is this feeling? I'm not willing to feel?
Lenore: shows me
Lenore: what it is I need to be with. Have the courage to be with.
Lenore: in order to be able to yes, protect myself, soothe myself.
Lenore: but not continue the trajectory of harm by seeking revenge, seeking to hurt in return.
Lenore: So I'm going to suggest you'll grab if you haven't already some pen and paper and get yourself into a position where you can write.
Lenore: I, personally don't find this one as
Lenore: needing a privacy is last night's session, but that's just me.
Lenore: So if you'd like to have a bit of privacy while you're writing, feel free to spread out like we did last night.
Lenore: you might need a few few pages I've got. Got a few questions for you.
Lenore: Okay. so let's start with our roles as consumers.
Lenore: So in what areas. So just sort of answer this for yourself. This is
Lenore: Just individual practice. In what areas do I currently practice a credible intention of non-harm anywhere between non-harm and kindness.
Lenore: thinking, food. clothing, transport
Lenore: leisure activities.
Lenore: What areas as a consumer?
Lenore: Do you currently practice a credible intention of non-harm
Lenore: as a citizen?
Lenore: In what areas do I currently practice a credible intention of non-harm.
Lenore: so that might be in your local community, or
Lenore: either of those the second or the third of those concentric circles he talked about last night
Lenore: the last thing that I said the the second and third.
Lenore: Last night I talked about the 3 concentric circles so as a citizen thinking about the second and the third. So, citizen of maybe your local community.
Lenore: your country.
Lenore: or the globe. there's 2 outer layers.
other circles.
Lenore: Yeah.
Lenore: So non-harm anywhere between non-harm to kindness
Lenore: anywhere on the non harm to kindness. End of the spectrum.
Lenore: What kind of positive stuff are you thinking here? Just so that I can.
Lenore: Sure. yeah.
Lenore: anywhere between non-harm and kindness. So yeah, as I was saying earlier, when I say non-harm, I'm referring to that whole end of the spectrum. Yeah?
Lenore: And then in relationship. So as a friend, as a partner. maybe as a parent or grandparent.
Lenore: in what areas do I currently practice a credible intention of non-harm to kindness.
Lenore: Okay, back to your role as a consumer.
Lenore: In what areas do I turn away from imagining the harmful impact of my actions?
Lenore: In what areas as a consumer. in what areas do I turn away
Lenore: from imagining the harmful impact of my actions?
Lenore: So again, think about food. clothing. transport. leisure activities.
Lenore: all the things you spend money on.
Lenore: and by turning away from imagining a harmful impact, I mean. So so if I'm turning away from it, I haven't imagined
Lenore: or found out in detail what the harmful impact is.
Lenore: and same as a citizen or community member.
Lenore: In what areas
Lenore: do I turn away from imagining or finding out
Lenore: the harmful impact of my actions.
Lenore: And then same question in relationship
Lenore: as a friend, as a partner.
Lenore: parent. grandparent. In what areas do I turn away?
Lenore: I'm imagining the harmful impact
Lenore: of my actions or finding out about them.
Lenore: Okay, identify a time
Lenore: when you could have spoken up about some harm or potential harm. or you could have mitigated it in some way. But you stayed silent.
Lenore: or you didn't act.
Lenore: and when you've got an example in mind.
Lenore: Imagine how you'd respond differently.
Lenore: practicing non-harm to kindness somewhere on that spectrum. if that situation to a reoccur
Lenore: and describe that reauthored response
Lenore: on your paper.
Lenore: So when was there an opportunity that you let go through to the keeper?
Lenore: And if you could reauthor that. how would it be?
Lenore: Oh, okay, sure, no problem.
Lenore: Aye.
Lenore: who is excluded from the intention of non harm.
kindness
Lenore: for you. whether through thoughts, words, or deeds.
Lenore: So, for example, no voters at the referendum
Lenore: people who harm me.
Lenore: Non-human animals.
Lenore: people of certain political persuasions.
Lenore: non-cute or scary, non-human animals
Lenore: who's excluded when it comes to
Lenore: a credible intention of non-harm to kindness view.
Lenore: whether intentional exclusion or not.
Lenore: To what extent have I done the ethical imagining of a world where the climate crisis has hit.
Lenore: where the food bowls of the world are being hit by extreme weather so frequently that they don't have time to recover. For example.
Lenore: food's becoming scarce crazy, expensive.
Lenore: So to what extent have I done the ethical imagining of a world where the climate crisis has hit?
Lenore: So, as an example
Lenore: of imagining this world where the food bowls of the world are being hit by extreme weather
Lenore: so frequently that they don't have time to recover.
Lenore: and food is becoming scarce and crazy. Expensive.
Lenore: That's just an example of that ethical imagining.
Lenore: Or do you just not go there? Don't want to think about it.
Lenore: To what extent have I done the ethical imagining of the decisions I can take to mitigate my contribution to the climate crisis.
Lenore: To what extent do I lack the head space to imagine, to ponder to cultivate a credible intention of non harm.
Lenore: And if you do.
Lenore: what might you do to carve out that time and headspace? What might you do to carve out
Lenore: that time and headspace
Lenore: given that this is such a central value to Dhama practice.
Lenore: And lastly.
Lenore: in what way, if at all. would I like to deepen my commitment to the principle of non-harm.
Lenore: And how will I do that?
Lenore: Imagine it
Lenore: so?
Lenore: Stephen Winton and I, in our little pow hour tonight
Lenore: decided that most of the burning questions that are coming in
Lenore: can be addressed through
Lenore: talks the next day.
Lenore: and if not, we'll find a way to do them. But there aren't that many? So a couple of things, number one
Lenore: really love to hear thoughts and insights that might have been sparked in this activity.
Lenore: Secondly, we didn't really have much of a chance to discuss last night's talk, either, because we moved straight into burning questions. So if there is anything around that that people would like to
Lenore: discuss or ask, or what have you? We can do that as well.
Lenore: And then, just before we finish tonight. We'll
Lenore: touching with you on a couple of things logistically.
Lenore: So.
Lenore: yeah, thoughts, reflections, insights, questions, confusions.
Lenore: Yeah.
Lenore: a few. A few things are coming up for me. One is on the
Lenore: spectrum of harm to kindness.
Lenore: I think. What's missing for me? There is this thing of competence, that it's not enough to be kind. It's not enough to be compassionate.
Lenore: You have to have competence, you have to have skills. So that kindness. compassion on their own aunt enough, we have to become competent.
Lenore: So then, going to
Lenore: the thing about the consumer, how we make a difference personally reminds me of a film that I saw many years ago called black balloons. I don't know if anybody else saw it about how much carbon dioxide we were using, and they filled black balloons, and if we could just minimize our use of electricity of this and that and reduce the number of black balloons that would help mitigate climate change.
Lenore: and soon after that it became apparent that no matter if everybody
Lenore: kind of drastically reduced, it wasn't going to make a difference, because the system is set up in a way that it's not going to make any difference. It's the system itself. So I think it was Winton who was saying earlier. We have to be tactical.
Lenore: And it's like, where do we put our energy and resources? So in some ways, activism is so essential, we have to target the right things, because we might want to have good intentions and have good results. But
Lenore: we have to become competent. We have to know what to do. That's going to get the results to minimize the harm.
Lenore: Yes, thanks.
Lenore: my sense on that is that. And we actually, we're gonna we're gonna delve into this tomorrow. It's both.
Lenore: It's both end. It's not either or
Lenore: saying, oh, it's all up to the system, and we've got to change the system. Yes, we do. And
Lenore: every one of us.
Lenore: you know, added together, can make a massive difference. Yeah. So so there's also that justification. You know, what do we use as a justification for not doing anything. But but I really, I really think this idea of competence is so important, because it's like, where do we put our energy? Where do we put our resources? Where do we put our time to have the greatest effect? And from that we have to learn we have to develop. We have to have skill in action.
Lenore: I think in many cases. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and
Lenore: not always. Okay. So, for example. human consumption of meat contributes more CO. 2, to the environment than every form of transport put together.
Lenore: You don't need a whole lot of competence to stop eating meat.
Lenore: So yes, you need some competence when it comes to. How do we organise? How do we, you know, change the system?
Lenore: But there are also whole stack of decisions we make on a daily basis
Lenore: that add up
Lenore: to massive harm.
Kip.
Lenore: So I think it's both. And it's we. We have an individual responsibility. And it's almost those 3 levels of the of the world. You know, I have an individual responsibility in my direct
Lenore: impact on what I do.
Lenore: I have an impact in my community. And I have an impact. Where? And there are systems at both those 2 outer levels. There's a system at the community level. There's a system at the global level. And yeah, we gotta shake that up, too.
Lenore: But I don't think it's either or
Lenore: okay.
Lenore: you're got Sean online. Yeah.
Shawn Powers: Hi, my name is Shawn. Thank you so much. For this retreat, and for all of the efforts to include those of us joining remotely. I'm based in Kampala, Uganda, although I'm Americans. So
Shawn Powers: my decision not to come was exactly this issue of my impact on the climate. But my question, actually, I think it relates to the previous point about competence.
Shawn Powers: And it's about how to deal with ambiguity. And I think this also relates to Steven's talk about getting out of binary thinking. Because I think our choices aren't always necessarily all that clear cut.
So
Shawn Powers: I don't know if this is a great example, and I don't wanna launch a debate about the facts about working conditions and and so forth. But you know. The question about clothing made me think a little bit about the fact that, you know I think there is a spectrum, and there's some
Shawn Powers: manufacturing. That's quite exploitative. But there's also a reality that
Shawn Powers: you know, it's in countries like the one where I live. It's these types of
Shawn Powers: jobs are an opportunity for people relative to, you know, eking out a subsistence living on a on a farm, for example.
Shawn Powers: So anyway, I we won't dwell too much on the example, because I worry that that one might be a little bit controversial. But just in if if we are faced with choices where there's maybe a lack of clarity, and I suppose we could always do our more, more research.
Shawn Powers: But but other than that how do you suggest? We deal with the fact that it's not always binary that this is the harmful choice, and this is the non harmful choice. Thank you.
Lenore: My mind goes back to a talk that Winton gave at Mysanger many years ago.
Lenore: Where he talked about the difference between morals and ethics
Lenore: and morals.
Lenore: if I'm remembering correctly, are a code, almost a set of rules about what to do.
Lenore: how to behave.
Lenore: And they're often, you know what our religions provide us. Ethics are a set of values.
Lenore: That we
Lenore: that sometimes conflict in real life.
Lenore: and that we take with us
Lenore: in our real day-to-day lives and try to do our best
Lenore: to live accordingly. and anyone who I have never studied ethics. But I know people who have. I have a sister who's a doctor, and she had to study it, and I remember talking with her about it.
Lenore: you know, ethics are an incredibly interesting thing to think about, because they are often not straightforward. They're often not clear cut. It's often not the case that oh, choice A is the good choice and choice. B is the bad choice, or which do I do
Lenore: often choice? A will be good for these reasons, and not good for other reasons and choice. B as well. And then there's a whole bunch of stuff. We don't even know
Lenore: about both choices. And so my sense is that
Lenore: within the
Lenore: realms of realism, I mean, we can't spend our entire lives on the Internet, researching everything to the nth degree.
Lenore: But
Lenore: within within realistic sort of parameters, we do our best to inform ourselves
Lenore: about the consequences about the processes of production. If we're talking about our role as consumers.
Lenore: We, if we're talking about.
Lenore: you know, governments at least know what the government's policies are when you go to the voting booth
Lenore: corporates the same, you know, there's there's a certain amount of information that we have access to. So there's a certain amount of due diligence that we can do
Lenore: as consumers, as members of society.
Lenore: And even at that really personal level, you know.
Lenore: sometimes asking the question of people.
Lenore: you know, how did that land with you, or I noticed you were a little
Lenore: iffy when I suggested this the other day? Were you Ok. With it? Asking the question, finding out what is the impact of of my actions or my inactions depending on what it is
Lenore: with, you know. But again, a spectrum
Lenore: from
Lenore: not having found out anything at all. 2.
Lenore: This is taking over my life, you know, we all have lives to lead. So
Lenore: yeah, I think we have to do. What's a reasonable amount of due diligence as consumers, as
Lenore: citizens and as people.
Lenore: And back to what I was saying yesterday is feel the the unpleasantness of uncertainty and ambiguity and act. Anyway.
Lenore: we're probably not going to make perfect decisions.
Lenore: The I mean 1 one approach is to say, do the low-hanging fruit
Lenore: do the things where we know? Yeah, there's not a lot of debate
Lenore: around climate change. you know. Even if we were just to go. Well, okay, let me have a real look at not just you know, my inner circle. What am I doing with my personal choices.
Lenore: But how many of us have gone and met with our local Mp.
Lenore: And said.
Lenore: we need to do more. This is urgent.
Lenore: you know. I this thing about imagination actually got me imagining this morning.
Lenore: and I was just starting I let go of oh, what's realistic? And I just went. What could we do we need to do more. What could we do?
Lenore: What if everyone
Lenore: and this is going to sound crazy? But just it's imagination right?
Lenore: What if everyone who cares about climate change and the climate crisis went and camped on the streets of the city
Lenore: until the government agreed to do more. Yeah, I mean? There's there's there's organizations that do that, your stink extinction rebellions. And you know, what have you? But what if?
Lenore: What if
Lenore: somebody was to organise the big kahuna
Lenore: of climate change protests
Lenore: in the city, and the citizens just went and blocked the streets and said, This is existential. We're not moving until you promise to do more faster.
Lenore: right?
Lenore: It was just a thought. But I just.
Lenore: I thought to myself.
Lenore: even on a personal level.
Lenore: what can I do? What can I do? This question's been asked a few times in the last 2 days. What can I do?
Lenore: All right, Tim. The 2 of us will block the streets.
Lenore: yeah. So I think you know.
Lenore: Yes, it's ambiguous. And yes, we're not going to have perfect information. But
Lenore: we've probably in a lot of areas we've got enough.
Lenore: And if we add some imagination to this.
Lenore: you may as well sleep in your room. Death instead of on your chair.
Lenore: Yeah. Does that go to answer the question in E.
Lenore: Why.
Lenore: he's done, I think. Are you done
Lenore: so?
Shawn Powers: Oh, yes, sorry. Thank you so much.
Lenore: There's a lot of belief systems in what we're talking about
Lenore: tons of them.
Lenore: I do probably 80% of my shopping at garage sales
Lenore: garage garage sal food sales. Okay.
Lenore: I have friends that wouldn't go near them.
Lenore: They have a belief system that what who wants other people's junk right?
Lenore: My living expense is probably
Lenore: 20 to 30% less than theirs because of that. And I get to reuse stuff
Lenore: till it's really worn out
Lenore: and then recycle it right.
Lenore: Another one would be. what party are you?
Lenore: Party? Yeah. What political? I'm a swinger, buddy. I what swing out? No, I can't use you anybody else.
Lenore: Labor.
Lenore: which one is the Conservative party. Liberal
Lenore: rules are conservative in Australia. Yeah.
Lenore: Okay.
Lenore: yes. Yeah. And the if they're the Conservative, who's I mean, if there's a if
Lenore: I can't do it. Labor is the slightly left liberal is the slightly right.
Lenore: Okay? So you, I can do left and right. Okay.
Lenore: so you normally vote left.
Lenore: That's your. That's your mindset. You normally vote left. and lo and behold, the guy on the right comes up with the best
Lenore: climate change plan
Lenore: that you've heard of what are you gonna do? I'll vote right
Lenore: right now. Yeah.
Lenore: But I don't identify with a political party. I don't identify with a political party back to our
Lenore: issue of identifying and selfing.
Lenore: Yeah, it's not just making choices. Okay about doing things because you're gonna come up against belief systems right and left. But with a lot of those choices, they're not just simple.
Lenore: Well, I'm gonna
Lenore: recycle. Or I'm gonna do this
Lenore: because lots of those things are my mom did it that way. Alright.
Lenore: I mean, it's interesting. I've got a session later in the week.
Lenore: where we're gonna look at what we pay attention to, and how we choose what to engage with
Lenore: and
Lenore: part of it is for me.
Lenore: What do I have but to the issue of competence and to the issue of energy.
Lenore: You know. What do I have skill for? What do I have energy for?
Lenore: As well as what do I care about? There's way too many things that I care about to give
Lenore: my time and skill to all of them.
Lenore: and for me personally, where I've gotten to
Lenore: is, I think the biggest contribution I can make
Lenore: is to do my bit to get people growing.
Lenore: and I consider dharma practice growing.
Lenore: So getting them to start paying attention, being mindful.
Lenore: being mindful that, hey.
Lenore: I care about climate change. But it's actually the other party that's offering the why would I resist
Lenore: voting for that party if they're offering a better policy just in your
Lenore: fictitious example there
Lenore: starting to help people be aware of their internal processes so that they can more mindfully make
Lenore: their life choices according to their espoused values.
Lenore: You know, if I could, if I had a magic wand, if I could go. What's the one, you know? One
Lenore: difference that I could make? Well, I'd actually probably want 2 wishes, but
Lenore: one of them would be
Lenore: to wake people up in terms of what I mean by that is.
Lenore: increase their mindfulness of their own
Lenore: in a world, their own processes, the thing that their their internal processes
Lenore: so that they can see. You know. I mean, II see this all the time, you know.
Lenore: out at the track, you know. I'm getting out of my car. I'm going into the track. There's
Lenore: a woman sitting there in her formal drive.
Lenore: with her windows down and her car turned on with the air conditioner on
Lenore: cause. It's a bit of a warm afternoon. and and I know this woman and have a good relationship with her and
Lenore: we had a little chat, and then I said, just, you know, very, in a very friendly way.
Lenore: something about her, you know. Air conditioner on with the
Lenore: with the windows down, I said, you know it's really lovely and breezy out here. And she was like, Oh, yeah, I guess that's pretty bad, isn't it?
Lenore: And she turned it off.
Lenore: A lot of people are just not paying attention
Lenore: to what they're doing.
Lenore: So for me when I ask myself What's the single biggest contribution I think I can make with my energy, my passions, my time, my skill.
Lenore: It's too help stimulate people growing
Lenore: the other thing. By the way, the other magic wish I'd make is
Lenore: to drop the barriers to compassion.
Lenore: just if if everybody could just automatically not have those barriers
Lenore: and think of themselves as the earth-dwellers instead of the. you know. I'll have compassion for this group, but not that group.
Lenore: I think the world would be a very, very different place. II wanna one of the other things that goes on with the whole thing is priorities.
Lenore: And I can't remember
Lenore: where I read this or what I'm just. I'm a paraprason right?
Lenore: One airplane ride is worth 10,000 cars.
Lenore: What are you going to do about that one?
Lenore: I mean, it's like, do you go after the airlines? Or do you stop flying?
Lenore: Or what what happens with that one? Because that's the priority one. If you get that one fixed you. Do. You just drop a carbon footprint a lot
Lenore: a lot
Lenore: a lot less than not eating meat. I'm sorry than you a lot less than not eating meat.
Lenore: I'm sorry I didn't understand.
Lenore: Yeah. So eating meat. Yes. Good ones. More Co. 2 to the environment than every form of transport put together. Not just the aeroplane, right?
Lenore: But anyway, it's you know.
Lenore: we all have to make our choices, and and there are so many things that we could do. You know my sense is, you go for the low-hanging fruit first.
Lenore: What are the things that are easy that could make a difference? Don't require a lot of time and resources.
Lenore: Are you? Are you benefiting? Do you plan on running for Parliament?
Lenore: I would be terrible, terrible representative of the people. You're a low-hanging fruit. I am so not representative of the average person on the street. I was asked about it once. I think that's crazy idea.
Lenore: Meredith had a question.
Lenore: Hi! I'm Meredith. Thanks, Leonora. That was, that was a great talk. And lots to think about. I just wanted to, I guess. Make a reflective comment that sort of picks up on. Sorry. It's just working that picks up on, I think, what we're talking about, the difference between
Lenore: making small changes which don't in themselves do very much to the very large. You know problems of the world, you know. They don't fix the problem, and it would be easy to say my actions are worthless, or they don't make any difference. So I should do what I like, or whatever some people do, that they get
Lenore: exhausted by
Lenore: feeling so overwhelmed by something that can't affect.
Lenore: I just. I'm in defense of the small action.
Lenore: I think it's really really important to do things which indicate to yourself, if nothing, if no one else, that you're actually behaving in a way that's consistent internally with your own values. And I really believe that that rubs off on people.
Lenore: I think people notice. And it's you summed it up beautifully before talking about
Lenore: basically what people say versus what they think they believe, and I think that
Lenore: by acting consistently in your own internal system, then you really are sort of
Lenore: nobody could. Nobody could say you're acting in a way that you don't believe, or that you're telling people to do things they should, I think, just being who you are, and acting with integrity, and according to your values, is actually an inspiring thing for other people. And I think people pick up genuineness in others, and and they look with curiosity. Oh, you're doing that! What does that mean? What would that mean for me? And I think
Lenore: that there's a lot of change that can happen
Lenore: by just attending to those really small things. So it's not really a question. Just a thank you for the reflection and and I guess it's the sort of reason to be motivated to still make small changes, even if you can't change the world.
Lenore: Yeah, I thorough thanks, Meredith. I thoroughly agree with that.
Lenore: I shared an example at our small group chat yesterday.
Lenore: When I first became a vegetarian.
Lenore: I was a bit preachy about it. I was a bit proselytizing
Lenore: and that process itself is interesting. But
Lenore: I over time, I realized, that's that's not helpful. It's not helping achieve anything, you know. All it does is sort of make people take a step back.
Lenore: And then I, over the course of years, sort of really started to subscribe to the beaver change. You want to see
Lenore: theory, and that people will only
Lenore: be inspired
Lenore: by your example if they are inspired by you as a person
Lenore: and so becoming a
Lenore: I don't know what word to use growing as a person becoming the person that I think is a good person to be.
Lenore: You know we heard earlier about the the
Lenore: the ancient Greeks. You know. What what kind of person do I want to be?
Lenore: was kind of where II directed myself.
Lenore: and then, many years later. I've had at least 3 people, possibly more. Say to me in the last decade. I'm now a vegetarian because of you
Lenore: or I. At least I eat less meat because of you, and it wasn't because I was
Lenore: preaching to them I'd never said a word.
Lenore: They they got curious, you know we'd go to dinner and not eat vegetarian, vegetarian food, and
Lenore: and then ask me why? And I'd tell them and
Lenore: They said it was because it was who I was that actually
Lenore: influenced them.
Lenore: So I do think those, you know, we think it doesn't make any difference, but it does who we are in the world sends ripple effects, and
Lenore: around, everywhere we go, everyone we deal with
Lenore: many drops in a bucket.
Lenore: Yeah. thanks, Meredith.
Lenore: Hello! My question kind of follows your reflection. I think, Meredith, and when
Lenore: you said, just before your second magic wand would be opening the door of compassion. what I'm thinking about is something I heard in the room through the afternoon. Discussion as well is that
Lenore: when we get mindful of the
Lenore: conditions of harm, and we start seeing it all.
Lenore: It can be so overwhelming, or it can be, you know, when we do have compassion we open our heart to the suffering, and you start seeing it. You're like.
Lenore: excuse my language, but fuck me like that's a lot of suffering, and it's a lot to stay open to
Lenore: And I. You know my practice is to try and do the things I can like almost for myself, because it makes me feel better in my life.
Lenore: But really feel this, you know, like that deep ecology thing of like I you know, my, I am
Lenore: the earth as well. It's that sort of lack of separation. But this
Lenore: makes me
Lenore: overwhelmed, and I'm often emotionally flooded by tiny things like, you know, the lizard in the bottom of the bucket. I might lose my shit over that, and that's not very practical or functional, because then I'm not, you know, in a space to respond skillfully. And it leads me to get this sense of desperation sometimes, like my actions are being driven from.
Lenore: have to get everyone to see it my way. And I almost noticed this like
Lenore: moral superiority that's coming in like, I'm right about this. And then. So I think there's a lot of questions in there. But like I'm interested in how you do it because you seem very resilient.
Lenore: Yeah. So part of that answer will come on about Thursday, but part of it is also.
Lenore: and this is where, you know, Dharma, practice can be so helpful is
Lenore: oftentimes, and I think that superiority thing that I was doing when I first became a vegetarian.
Lenore: It's it's an attempted
Lenore: protection mechanism
Lenore: that if I can just leverage everybody to stop doing all this harm, then I won't have to feel this
Lenore: horrible feeling that I feel because I've opened my eyes to it.
Lenore: I think that's why I didn't become a vegetarian until I was in my thirtys, even though my heartfelt care for animals had been all the way along.
Lenore: You know I can easily tell you the causes and conditions that led to that. Like my parents saying, Yeah, you can be a vegetarian. You can have lettuce for the rest of your life.
Lenore: You know. Parents are a lot more accommodating these days. But
Lenore: So
Lenore: there's there's a part of it that is, there's something here. I don't want to feel
Lenore: this question, what am I not willing to feel?
Lenore: So
Lenore: so
Lenore: in in some cases there's real benefit in in feeling it.
Lenore: I think it was. Yeah, there are cases where there's a benefit to feel it. And this is what I'm going to walk through with you in one of my!
Lenore: How to engage with our overwhelmed sessions is sometimes we have to guard our senses.
Lenore: It was so interesting this morning.
Lenore: I went and did my little gym session, and
Lenore: I got my stuff out of the back of the car, and right on the grass where I was about to set up was this dead bird.
Lenore: and it looked like it had been recently killed, and who was only about a third of it left legs.
Lenore: some feathers, wings.
Lenore: and some intestines. and I felt
Lenore: really sad when I saw that.
Lenore: And I
Lenore: so, and the mind went. Gee! I wonder what did that?
Lenore: Was it a fox
Lenore: foxes would normally not. It looks so fresh, and the mind started getting killed. Was it a bird of prey.
Lenore: And then I just thought to myself.
Lenore: there is absolutely no benefit whatsoever in me thinking about that. All it's going to do is distress me.
Lenore: So I moved over away from where I was. I didn't put in the bin. I think you know, if it's dead now, it may as well be dinner for a fox.
Lenore: But there's there's an element of, I think, skillful practice
Lenore: that is guarding those sense doors, including this one of where we let it go.
Lenore: So it was. It was kind of when you told the story this afternoon. I was just like, Oh, there goes that guarding of my sense tour. I'm just being told what happened.
Lenore: so that was
Lenore: that was interesting. But yeah, I think there's a part of this that we cannot take it all in.
Lenore: We cannot feel
Lenore: the pain of the world, all of it, or it will render us completely useless
Lenore: to. We won't be able to engage with the world. We'll either numb out.
Lenore: or we will just disengage.
Lenore: because it'll be overwhelming. So I think it's a really important. This is why I've got
Lenore: 2 whole sessions on various parts of
Lenore: engaging with that overwhelm, and a huge part of that is self-care.
Lenore: that if we're going to be useful
Lenore: as agents of ethical action in the world. We have to look after ourselves.
Lenore: and part of that is guarding our scent stores.
Lenore: Oh, yeah.
Lenore: stay tuned. Thank you.
Lenore: I had a couple of
Lenore: things that end a question.
Lenore: Think following on from what Meredith and Tessa were both saying and talking about self-care.
Lenore: I think
Lenore: the the value of those really small steps is also that it can make you feel
Lenore: emotionally good. You know, when Des before was talking, for example, about this small step of improving the nature strip, and then the birds coming back. It might have had a
Lenore: not as big as an impact as
Lenore: Some of the other changes you could make, but I think because it it hit home and
Lenore: a lot of things you can do, for example, divesting your super.
Lenore: You don't really, you know.
Lenore: doesn't doesn't really feel like anything. so another yeah champion of the the small actions. but I think what I wanted to ask about was,
Lenore: internal hypocrisy
Lenore: when
Lenore: and I suppose it's slightly in defensive non-vegetarians as well.
Lenore: I think that
Lenore: food is such a delicate and personal and important
Lenore: think it's something that I've struggled with in different ways. And
Lenore: And I know that there are some people
Lenore: who
Lenore: simply made as a part of their lives, for whatever reason.
Lenore: And
Lenore: you know whether that's a a
Lenore: because it falls on a different idea of of harm or non harm. It doesn't
Lenore: really matter. I suppose I was just using that as an example to get to when you're aware of in internal hypocrisies in your own life, for example. Yes, I
Lenore: turn away from this. But II don't right now. That's what I'm
Lenore: sitting with, and yes, maybe I can make more headspace. But today, in this moment, I'm a person who, you know, is a vegetarian, but is absolutely terrible with fresh food waste.
Lenore: How how do you
Lenore: balance those things when they're a reality?
Lenore: Things are balancing here in the question.
Lenore: the knowledge that you're acting in line with your values in some ways, and out of line with your values in other ways, but not having the capacity to
Lenore: to flick a switch.
Lenore: So my sense is from my personal experience. There's this constant dance
Lenore: between
Lenore: self-compassion and giving myself a kick in the pants.
Lenore: again, like a parent. You know you've got to be kind and loving, and sometimes you got to. You got to say no until you know. Come on, you can do better than that.
Lenore: So I guess this comes down to
Lenore: conviction. Certainly think you know, in in almost any endeavor, in almost any change we try to make in our lives. You know, right. I'm gonna do this. We set this intention. We start. We're gonna fall off the wagon
Lenore: along the way. And my thing is.
Lenore: understand it.
Lenore: Have compassion for it. Get back on the wagon.
Lenore: So you know what what we're doing again is we don't want extremes. The the I like the phrase that stuck with me from Stevens. Writing was the fuzzy fabric of life.
Lenore: You know, it's
Lenore: it's fuzzy, and it's multifaceted, and it's moving all the time. And and
Lenore: so sometimes it's gonna be really hard.
Lenore: And sometimes it's not. But the more we do it the more it becomes our habit.
Lenore: And so
Lenore: the thing about in defense of vegetarians. I'm not about to attack any vegetarians. I was not a vegetarian until I was 32, despite the fact that I had this strong sense of
Lenore: care for animals. So I totally get how? It's difficult. Totally. I like meat.
Lenore: but I think we've got to have a conviction to keep getting back on.
Lenore: you know. Yeah, we fall off and and to kick ourselves up the you know, in the pants every now and then, like you said. You know food is Would you say it's
Lenore: delicate. And
Lenore: I mean people. People love their food right, and they love their food that they love
Lenore: and
Lenore: at least at this point in time.
Lenore: this, this climate emergency. you know. If II struggle to think, if somebody has done the ethical imagining. If we've actually gone. Okay, let's let's read the books. Let's listen to the people who are telling us what this
Lenore: society is going to look like in in 5,800 years time. And if you do that, and can still say, Oh, well, I'm you know. food's special to me, so I'm going to keep eating meat
Lenore: in a food is special way, or anything. I meant more for health reasons, or I mean, plenty of people simply can't sustain vegetarian diets.
Lenore: I know there are certain people who
Lenore: for, like something about their physiology, means that they can't process certain nutrients. If they don't eat meat. then they've got to eat meat. You know. There's this issue of self-compassion.
Lenore: The other 99% of the population.
Lenore: Different story. Perhaps.
Lenore: Yeah.
Lenore: I get it. It's it's not easy.
Lenore: More a comment rather than a question. Try and draw a simple thread from yesterday's theme, and today's theme.
Lenore: So from perspective, we went into imagination, which the
Lenore: pose, the question, Stephen of, well, what are we going to do about it? And I just want to try and lift the mood of the room a little bit and say.
Lenore: Once we imagine that we want to exercise some intentionality about doing something about all sorts of things.
Lenore: and particularly if we have an orientation that everybody can do something. Then the missing piece seems to be for us to actually be a little bit kind to ourselves, and know that
Lenore: everybody can bring a different, unique school
Lenore: or knowledge or understanding to to the a unified goal.
Lenore: So
Lenore: this exercise at a workshop a few weeks ago, where characteristics of whether you're asked whether you
Lenore: you had the characteristics of a prophet. Go and stand in that corner. If you were an educator in that corner, etc. Etc. So we have, you know.
Lenore: theologian and writer, we have other skilled Thespian
Lenore: practical, and in your in your own skills. I think that this might come out of the next few days, that we should
Lenore: be kind on ourselves to know that we can bring something unique to.
Lenore: too. They
Lenore: The issue, whether it's in your own life, your family, your community, or the world.
Lenore: And that we don't all have to
Lenore: come along and be all the organizer, or the prophet, or the academic, or something else. I just wanted to leave that thought so that we can sort of feel that
Lenore: a sense of confidence that we can all do something, but in our own special, unique way.
Lenore: And when you put it all together. It's really, really potent.
Lenore: And I think that goes back to the issue of competence and energy. What do I have energy for? What do I have competence for.
Lenore: Yeah.
Lenore: Just a footnote on this, I worked for many years in health, promotion.
and people in health, promotion
Lenore: have spent many years in media campaigns and all kinds of ways to persuade people to do things they're not currently doing
Lenore: turns out the best predictor of whether, for example, someone will lose weight is whether they know someone who's lost weight.
Lenore: This predictor of whether someone will take up exercise is whether there are no people who exercise.
Lenore: So the processes of change
Lenore: amongst social animals like us are, in fact, precisely the things that you're talking about, Lenore.
Lenore: and they're far more potent than reading the books and seeing the films on television, and all of those things which stir the imagination.
Lenore: arouse the guilt.
Lenore: but don't necessarily lead on to what you get from talking to your neighbour about how her run was yesterday, and she says, Oh, it was great! How did yours go
Lenore: so yep.
Lenore: so close to handing it over. Yes. So there's been books written about how to talk to people about climate action or climate change and climate action. And there's a whole divvy up of how people respond. Some people
Lenore: will respond to the shock horror. Some people will be completely turned off. Some people will want to do something, but oh, it's all too hard. Let's go and have a beer. I mean, there's just different ways to approach different people, and I imagine most people here are already pretty highly motivated and and thinking about their footprint and their impacts. So I think you know what John said, it's really just teasing out. Where
Lenore: do we have the greatest strengths in our own lives. I mean, certainly pay attention to the detail of what we're consuming, and so on. But I think each of us will be different in in what we have to offer, and not to try to get us all uniformly getting as good as each other about every little detail, but rather to see where our strengths are and really focus on that. And also this is this came out of rebecca, sonitz
Lenore: podcast was someone. She referred to. It might have been a climate person, anyway, he said, the most oft asked question he has is, what can I do as an individual? And his response would be.
Lenore: join. Other people, become part of a team, become part of a network, because that will give you the empowerment and the strength and the learning and the
Lenore: joy and the fun and all the energy that you need to actually move on and learn and and become a part of it all. So yeah, I think we need to be careful not to feel that everyone has to be doing the same thing, because people for varied reasons won't all be on the same page in the same way. But, as John said, I think it's just that thing. We all have
Lenore: something to contribute, and I think everybody here is highly motivated to make that contribution
Lenore: anybody else.
Lenore: He was lost to have the last witch.
Lenore: I just wanted to just say one thing, to follow on from Suzy's comment. I was at an international conference of family doctors about a month ago in Sydney.
Lenore: and one of the people in charge of this international organization who's very public health focused in in her approach. She made the comment that in thinking about how people are overwhelmed by climate change and what to do about it. She tried to flip it a bit, and said.
Lenore: the other way of thinking is, if we look after people, we will look after the climate.
Lenore: and a whole lot of aspects of caring for each other will actually have the result of caring for the climate or caring for the planet, and I really liked that approach to sort of bring it from something which was totally intangible to, you know, the community level and and the health of each person in that community. So that was just another thought.
Lenore: yeah, I mean interesting when you say, health of that community, are you talking physical health. yeah, or physical, mental or all of the you know who definition of health, which is not just the absence of disease, but the presence of I can't remember the definition exactly, but it's it's about all aspects of well-being.
Lenore: hmm! There! There are parts of that that I really that really resound with me like. You know my thinking about my.
Lenore: The biggest way I can contribute is to help people grow and flourish as human beings, and that that will have knock-on effects, because they're now going to be mindful.
Lenore: you know, more caring and responsible. And what have you?
Lenore: There's also a part of it, though, that if we
Lenore: if we're too kind of Mother Hoody about that, and don't look at the detail. Yeah, there are people. My my sister is a surgeon, general surgeon. So she does a lot of.
Lenore: you know, work on intestines and appendix appendices and all that sort of gear. And so she works with obese people quite often as well.
Lenore: and
Lenore: and you know
Lenore: she does these surgeries, and then oftentimes they go back home and start it all over again.
Lenore: So caring, you know, just caring for her in the sense of fixing her physical problems, didn't change a thing just meant, she could, you know, go back and start again.
Lenore: I think I was. We were. I guess we were family doctors, so we're all about preventative medicine. We're all about preventing chronic disease starting. In the first place, looking at the causes of obesity before they turn into obesity and cardiovascular disease. You know that that's the level. I guess it's a more upstream perspective than the surgeon who has to fix a hopeless situation. That's
Lenore: not necessarily going to get better just because there's been one surgery. So yeah.
Lenore: I don't do that, too, though even healthy people
Lenore: aren't necessarily civically engaged people.
Lenore: yeah, I'm I'm a part of 2 communities and a secular Dhamma mob
Lenore: and my athletics mob and my athletics mob are pretty healthy people.
Lenore: but
Lenore: they're not terribly, you know, no more than the average person on the street in terms of engaged in these ethical, you know, crises of our world.
Lenore: There's much more engagement in in in this mob.
Lenore: so my sense is.
Lenore: that's why I guess my 2 magic wands are you know. If I could increase the mindfulness of actually seeing my choices and seeing the consequences of my choices, both for myself and for my
Lenore: family and for my community and for my world, and
Lenore: dropping those compassion barriers to care about it.
Lenore: I think. Yeah, I don't know. That's just my thinking about where's the? There was another concept in organizational psychology. It was called the catalytic mechanism.
Lenore: And and the idea is, you know. Where's where's the point? Where? If I if I change that.
Lenore: everything else would flow? and
Lenore: that's
Lenore: I think there are some systemic, you know, catalytic mechanisms that if we could get them working, yeah, potentially could have those big knock-on effects.
Lenore: But in terms of at at a personal level.
Lenore: my sense is, you know, the kind of work that we do in our dumber practice.
Lenore: personal growth, mindfulness of of our processes
Lenore: paying attention being present.
Lenore: They're they're the tickets to those knock-on effects on a large scale if we could do it.
Lenore: Yeah, we're talking. We're spanning lots of things in this conversation. Yeah. And I guess just to clarify. I was probably thinking more on on a population level than an individual level. Right? So if we think about
Lenore: how to help girls in a developing country. We know that if we educate girls they delay, they they spend more time at school, they delay having children. They learn how to have access to contraception. They have smaller families.
Lenore: The demands on the planet are less. They look after the children, they have better. There's a whole lot of. Really, they have less domestic violence. There's a whole lot of really really positive knock on effects from.
Lenore: you know, simply educating girls, or, you know, giving them the opportunity to to break out of the poverty cycle, of being the one in the, you know, in the fields having to do the manual work, or whatever. So I was kind of thinking on a much sort of not our personal level, or even our
Lenore: country level, but just more of a the whole planet. Because, yeah. the planet is full of people that all aspire to be. You know, first world citizens, and have all of the things that we have
Lenore: and you know, an increasing population which is just.
Lenore: I guess, wanting more stuff and not able to look after their own is not one that's going to help the planet. So I guess that's just to tie that up.
Lenore: Was there someone up there, did you say? No. pretty much our vegetation time I passed 9,
Lenore: did we? Wanna was there
Lenore: anything we needed to talk about before the end of the day?
Lenore: Pardon?
Lenore: Yes, yes.
Lenore: Sorry. I had this idea that there was something we were supposed to tell you. But maybe it'll come to me in the meditation.
Yeah.
Lenore: thank you.