WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.439 The Teachers: About the broad topic of Sangha, varying from 2 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:07.469 The Teachers: the principles of what the term 3 00:00:07.920 --> 00:00:09.829 The Teachers: means, on the one hand. 4 00:00:09.940 --> 00:00:18.669 The Teachers: down to how we actually set them up, run them, improve them on the other, and I'll start with the rarefy theory and then 5 00:00:18.740 --> 00:00:21.889 The Teachers: get pro progressively more realistic. 6 00:00:26.050 --> 00:00:31.450 The Teachers: I'm not going to. I'm going to speak for a couple of minutes. And 7 00:00:31.730 --> 00:00:40.929 The Teachers: the word sangha basically means community. And that's how I'm going to be using the term. Now it doesn't refer in our usage to 8 00:00:41.060 --> 00:00:45.450 The Teachers: the Sangha meaning the monks, although many Buddhist contexts. 9 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:52.199 The Teachers: That's how it's used. But here it just means the community, but not any old community. 10 00:00:52.360 --> 00:00:56.209 The Teachers: It's community within the framework of 11 00:00:56.330 --> 00:01:03.580 The Teachers: what in Buddhism are called the 3 treasures or the 3 jewels, the Buddha, the Dharma, and Sangha. 12 00:01:04.870 --> 00:01:15.720 The Teachers: The Buddha doesn't refer to the historical Buddha. The Buddha refers to the ideal or the value of being awake 13 00:01:16.130 --> 00:01:28.729 The Teachers: in different Buddhist traditions, understand that in different ways but awakening. and we might understand that as the kind of the the goal of this practice. where this path in a way 14 00:01:28.940 --> 00:01:32.069 The Teachers: starts and ends in a way awakening 15 00:01:32.180 --> 00:01:33.459 The Teachers: the Dharma 16 00:01:33.470 --> 00:01:44.189 The Teachers: means both teachings, the doctrines of Buddhism, but in a more general sense it means the the values and the practices and the 17 00:01:44.220 --> 00:01:47.559 The Teachers: philosophies that we seek to live by. 18 00:01:47.630 --> 00:01:58.260 The Teachers: It's it's a very difficult term to render in English, so we don't bother Buddha Dharma, and then Sangha, the third one has to do with 19 00:01:58.490 --> 00:02:01.870 The Teachers: recognizing how this process of 20 00:02:02.010 --> 00:02:05.140 The Teachers: leading alive ethically 21 00:02:05.180 --> 00:02:09.710 The Teachers: through meditation, through action in the world, through our life 22 00:02:09.729 --> 00:02:13.640 The Teachers: that inclines towards being awake. 23 00:02:14.200 --> 00:02:16.199 The Teachers: Not a solitary 24 00:02:16.570 --> 00:02:23.380 The Teachers: process for most people or for many people, but is one that is nurtured and held within 25 00:02:23.500 --> 00:02:27.610 The Teachers: communities of like-minded friends. and 26 00:02:28.010 --> 00:02:35.499 The Teachers: that doesn't imply any kind of formal religious organisation, although that might be one way in which it's done. 27 00:02:35.630 --> 00:02:45.950 The Teachers: And it also doesn't refer to any particular size. It could be just a group of friends who meets once a month somewhere in a person's flat. 28 00:02:46.060 --> 00:02:52.000 The Teachers: And what, in a way holds Sangha together 29 00:02:52.520 --> 00:03:04.600 The Teachers: is not the number of people who come, but the quality of the relationships, the friendships that they form in the course of their working together to support each other 30 00:03:04.750 --> 00:03:09.840 The Teachers: in this practice of the Dharma that inclines towards awakening. 31 00:03:10.420 --> 00:03:12.040 The Teachers: Historically. 32 00:03:12.700 --> 00:03:24.949 The Teachers: numerous models of Sangha have been tried out from the classical one of monastic communities bound by very strict rules to 33 00:03:25.210 --> 00:03:54.500 The Teachers: what we would find in Japan today, for example, where you'd have A priesthood rather than monks with congregations not dissimilar from how a Christian Church might be run with communities around it, and as we move into our rather more secular world, then the Sangha becomes a much more informal affair. That's much more democratized in terms of how it's organized in terms of who has authority and so forth, and so on. 34 00:03:55.030 --> 00:03:56.350 The Teachers: Winton. 35 00:03:57.940 --> 00:03:59.550 The Teachers: Thank you, Steven. 36 00:03:59.730 --> 00:04:02.979 The Teachers: maybe it'd be helpful if I just sort of outline 37 00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:08.129 The Teachers: how we do things in Sydney, because they're different from elsewhere. Partly. 38 00:04:08.620 --> 00:04:14.719 The Teachers: is it working? Partly 39 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:18.260 The Teachers: for historical reasons before 2,005. 40 00:04:18.410 --> 00:04:22.490 The Teachers: The Dharma scene, or 41 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:30.259 The Teachers: people for Westerners as much as it is in many other cities in the West. I guess that there were 42 00:04:30.440 --> 00:04:36.119 The Teachers: Asian transplants that welcomed Westerners. And then there were 43 00:04:37.590 --> 00:04:46.000 The Teachers: Western singers, almost entirely consisting of Westerners, who still had some sort of. 44 00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:54.240 The Teachers: I inherited charismatic authority because they were attached to a lineage like the Mahasi 45 00:04:54.980 --> 00:05:08.369 The Teachers: in the Pasana lineage from Burma in 2,005 there was a a major rupture in Sydney, because 2 institutions that we'd always used 46 00:05:08.590 --> 00:05:16.910 The Teachers: both for weekly meetings and for longer retreats, became unavailable for us. 47 00:05:17.210 --> 00:05:23.939 The Teachers: And that's another story. But the point was that we had to fairly quickly put together 48 00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:26.980 an organization that could 49 00:05:27.170 --> 00:05:30.989 The Teachers: to could replace what we'd lost in terms of 50 00:05:31.070 --> 00:05:32.689 being able to bring out 51 00:05:33.630 --> 00:05:42.890 The Teachers: overseas teachers being able to organise retreats that had sufficient quantum mass to get things done, and that organization was set up 52 00:05:43.090 --> 00:05:46.840 The Teachers: in 2,005, and at Sydney insight meditators 53 00:05:47.110 --> 00:05:48.600 your host 54 00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:50.010 The Teachers: this week. 55 00:05:50.340 --> 00:05:59.109 The Teachers: So it's still going strong, and that is an umbrella organization for the Sydney Sanger's. 56 00:05:59.500 --> 00:06:08.000 The Teachers: and indeed some outside Sydney that are now functioning. Now, some of those are simply lay sangers. 57 00:06:08.540 --> 00:06:17.559 and and they're quite eclectic about who they teachers that that come and give teachings to them. 58 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:26.789 The Teachers: When we set up Kookaburra Sanger, the one I'm in. It was a bit different because it was set up. 59 00:06:27.930 --> 00:06:29.739 Partly in a very, in the most 60 00:06:30.070 --> 00:06:49.620 The Teachers: trendy part of Sydney. So very nice people join. And and it was. And it said on our page, on the same website that we were interested in exploring secular Buddhism. As far as I know, this is the only kind of where the only saying go 61 00:06:49.630 --> 00:06:53.019 The Teachers: in the country, if not the galaxy that 62 00:06:53.050 --> 00:07:11.710 The Teachers: we're not okay. I'm glad to hear we're not alone anymore. That that. So we're actually saying this is, we. We want to pursue this this particular 63 00:07:11.760 --> 00:07:22.029 The Teachers: line of development. And we also made an interesting decision that we would not have outside teachers. So in other words, this anger is the teacher. 64 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:33.109 The Teachers: and and so it it makes demands on its members that you know, when we, we, we organize 65 00:07:33.200 --> 00:07:43.970 The Teachers: a series of discussions around particular aspects of Dharma and people are invited, and sometimes 66 00:07:44.060 --> 00:07:48.349 The Teachers: leaned on to to 67 00:07:48.900 --> 00:07:57.330 The Teachers: to to make a presentation on that subject which can then kick off a discussion in the in the wider group. 68 00:07:57.560 --> 00:08:01.129 The Teachers: And so, and since the pandemic 69 00:08:01.450 --> 00:08:05.969 The Teachers: like during the pandemic, we met online only since 70 00:08:06.290 --> 00:08:15.870 The Teachers: the pandemic we've met alternately. On each each week, online, or or in face to face. 71 00:08:15.910 --> 00:08:23.319 The Teachers: So this is, I guess this is a rather odd model, no teachers where it's self-teaching 72 00:08:23.600 --> 00:08:24.810 and 73 00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:29.239 The Teachers: and and it seems to work really well, it's it's a 74 00:08:29.630 --> 00:08:34.330 The Teachers: it. It's certainly one of one of the best, if not the best, experience 75 00:08:34.520 --> 00:08:37.119 The Teachers: of the experiences I've had 76 00:08:37.150 --> 00:08:39.320 The Teachers: of of 77 00:08:39.539 --> 00:08:41.969 The Teachers: Buddhist communities and and singers. 78 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:44.640 The Teachers: Okay. 79 00:08:46.700 --> 00:09:08.949 The Teachers: I initially used to attend to blue gum sanga, which is also prior to the Sanga that Winton's just described. That that was where you used to go as well, wasn't it? Before kookaburra and after a couple of years of sort of going there on and off. I was. It was actually feeling bad about the 80 00:09:09.300 --> 00:09:18.900 The Teachers: the emissions driving from the northern beaches to to Blue Gumsanga all the time that I thought, gee! I wonder if 81 00:09:18.920 --> 00:09:32.879 The Teachers: wonder if there's enough interest to have a Sanger on the northern beaches, and so I distinctly remember asking Winton, with a little bit of trepidation, because I didn't kind of know what the go was at the time I thought maybe it might be seen as 82 00:09:33.110 --> 00:09:46.930 The Teachers: setting up competition. So I sort of quietly asked Winton. What do you think? And he's like absolutely fantastic idea. We've had people from Northern Beecher years saying that I'd love to have a saint brought there. 83 00:09:47.190 --> 00:09:48.679 The Teachers: So 84 00:09:49.220 --> 00:10:03.450 The Teachers: I want to tell this story, because there might be people here who could set up a spanger themselves. And I want to encourage you to do that if if it'd be helpful so for the first. So that was 15 years ago. 85 00:10:03.490 --> 00:10:04.710 The Teachers: 2,009 86 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:20.470 The Teachers: and one of the advantages of being in a big city is that there are people like Quinton and and others who were, you know, experienced Duma practitioners and teachers, and for the first 7 years or so of of beaches Sanga's life. 87 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:32.360 The Teachers: Went and came on a monthly basis and and gave a talk. and for the first be pretty close to the first 10 years of its life we had a model where we had 88 00:10:32.370 --> 00:10:34.630 The Teachers: speakers every week. 89 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:46.809 The Teachers: Which was pretty much just following the format of blue gum sanga, that's what they did. by by, about the end of the tenth year. 90 00:10:48.230 --> 00:10:52.170 The Teachers: I was. I was getting pretty tired of that 91 00:10:52.220 --> 00:10:56.909 The Teachers: model because it was a little bit of a revolving door 92 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:05.490 The Teachers: thing. you know, in our effort to be open to newcomers. We had a lot of 93 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:13.109 The Teachers: you know people who would come once or twice, and then you'd see them again, you know, a few months later. And what have you? But there was no continuity. 94 00:11:13.290 --> 00:11:31.759 The Teachers: And so we faced this issue of different needs in in the group that you know, there's the needs of beginners. There's the needs of people who might have been doing Dharma for a little while, and then my personal needs were what I would really have loved 95 00:11:31.770 --> 00:11:51.039 The Teachers: as the person key person organising. It was probably a lot more like what winter just described in Kookaburra, where they have the the good fortune of having a lot of really experienced dumber practitioners in in their Sangha. So they don't even really need a teacher. 96 00:11:51.760 --> 00:11:56.950 The Teachers: it's quite different with the Sangha that 97 00:11:57.130 --> 00:12:00.930 The Teachers: we have on the northern beaches, Beachesanga, because 98 00:12:01.550 --> 00:12:08.459 The Teachers: we didn't have that deep. You know the bench strength, if you like the deep experience 99 00:12:08.620 --> 00:12:09.889 in the group. 100 00:12:10.030 --> 00:12:18.980 The Teachers: So anyway, And maybe this is a nice segue to sort of that, talking about what might what might be helpful. 101 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:23.749 The Teachers: For people with regard to Sangha is that we've 102 00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:36.280 The Teachers: we've changed each year we have a conversation at the end of the year. Has it gone? Is it meeting people's needs? Do we want to continue? I mean, every year at the end of the year. I think it's entirely possible that something might not arise again next year 103 00:12:36.780 --> 00:12:40.279 The Teachers: completely depends on the people in the group. 104 00:12:40.710 --> 00:12:50.770 The Teachers: And you know I mean it's continued to arise for 15 years now. But I remember a talk Winton once gave on Sangha. 105 00:12:51.280 --> 00:12:57.210 The Teachers: where he encouraged us to not think about Sangha as a service. 106 00:12:57.380 --> 00:13:03.959 The Teachers: Not think of it, as you know. I'm a customer, and it's there to to, you know. Meet my needs. 107 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:05.600 But to. 108 00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:11.450 The Teachers: you know. In fact, I remember you said, don't think of it like the you know. 109 00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:20.380 The Teachers: x 79 bus going past your door that you know you can get on it or not. Get on in it, and it will still just keep providing the service whether you're there or not. 110 00:13:20.660 --> 00:13:25.569 The Teachers: Sangha is an arising because there are people 111 00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:29.310 The Teachers: committed to making it happen. and 112 00:13:30.330 --> 00:13:31.660 so 113 00:13:31.700 --> 00:13:38.700 The Teachers: mean. I could probably share a number of insights I've gathered over the years of 114 00:13:38.750 --> 00:13:47.280 The Teachers: how to keep it arising. But a core one would would be the people who are 115 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:58.390 The Teachers: putting in the time and commitment to make it happen. It's got to meet their needs first and foremost, and otherwise it just doesn't happen. It will disintegrate. 116 00:13:58.910 --> 00:14:00.480 The Teachers: So for each group. 117 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.290 The Teachers: the more that you can. 118 00:14:04.780 --> 00:14:32.490 The Teachers: It doesn't sang. It doesn't have to be a cookie cutter thing. It it can be you know, teachers coming in talking. It can be no teachers and just the group themselves discussing things it can be we do have a book to study which and there are some fantastic resource that these 2 have put together to help with that. There's lots of resources and things we can talk about. But, 119 00:14:33.010 --> 00:14:36.409 The Teachers: I would emphasize that. It's 120 00:14:36.470 --> 00:14:40.969 The Teachers: it's a creation of the group for the group. 121 00:14:41.280 --> 00:14:44.769 The Teachers: and needs to be meeting the needs of people 122 00:14:44.950 --> 00:14:48.550 The Teachers: that make it happen first and foremost. 123 00:14:48.780 --> 00:14:56.029 The Teachers: and that may change over time. You know the the we now have quite a different model to what we had. We only meet fortnightly. 124 00:14:56.690 --> 00:15:12.890 The Teachers: we Those who at the end of the previous year. Say, yes, I'm committed to keeping, you know, participating. Next year we all pitch in money to cover the rent for the hall. We rent a council hall. 125 00:15:13.190 --> 00:15:24.950 The Teachers: and we cover the cost of that for the whole year, like we all just pitch in, and that's done with. We don't have to worry about. Oh, you know we're not. Don't have enough people this week to, you know. Give month, rent, or whatever. 126 00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:34.919 The Teachers: and it's a pretty stable group that comes every week, which is fantastic because it means that there's continuity and 127 00:15:34.930 --> 00:15:37.020 The Teachers: deepening of 128 00:15:37.090 --> 00:15:42.009 The Teachers: understanding and relationship among the group. 129 00:15:42.160 --> 00:15:44.870 The Teachers: At least the group that comes regularly. 130 00:15:45.260 --> 00:15:53.749 The Teachers: And so it's morphed. And so I guess I just share that with you. To say it's a it's an alive and dynamic thing. It needs to be 131 00:15:53.910 --> 00:16:06.500 The Teachers: but it also requires commitment. It won't happen without people having that commitment to make it happen to come to participate, and, like all 132 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:08.510 The Teachers: human endeavors. 133 00:16:08.730 --> 00:16:14.050 The Teachers: If there are problems, or if you know, people are unhappy with something 134 00:16:14.640 --> 00:16:27.600 The Teachers: to talk about it, to deal with it. to make that part of your dharma. Practice is, as a group to, you know. deal with, deal with whatever issues are coming up. 135 00:16:27.970 --> 00:16:30.579 The Teachers: There is an element of it that 136 00:16:31.810 --> 00:16:34.870 The Teachers: if the group is, you know, the group will be 137 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:37.800 The Teachers: what it will be, and that won't suit everyone. 138 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.359 The Teachers: So that's okay. 139 00:16:42.450 --> 00:16:50.020 The Teachers: they can go. And you know, people who don't like the way one Sangha operates can, you know, find another one? 140 00:16:50.470 --> 00:16:58.759 The Teachers: But essentially, it won't happen unless it's meeting the needs of the people who are making that Sangha 141 00:16:59.170 --> 00:17:08.669 The Teachers: happen on a whether it's a weekly or fortnightly or monthly basis so important to have the conversation about. What do we want from Sangha? 142 00:17:08.839 --> 00:17:18.510 The Teachers: How do we make that happen? And build in some structures for making that an ongoing and dynamic conversation between the people who 143 00:17:19.260 --> 00:17:21.270 The Teachers: comprise the Sangha. 144 00:17:22.700 --> 00:17:35.909 The Teachers: So yeah, it's not a. It's not a set thing, and it's something that if you were interested in, if you don't have one, and you're interested in creating one. There's no set way. There's no cookie cutter it's about, you know. Find a group 145 00:17:36.910 --> 00:17:47.269 The Teachers: articulate what it is you'd like to get from that group, and then how you might make that happen. And and I'd recommend building in some self reflective processes to 146 00:17:47.490 --> 00:17:50.779 The Teachers: be able to discuss it and deal with it. If things are changing or 147 00:17:51.030 --> 00:17:53.660 The Teachers: going off track, or there are problems as well. 148 00:17:56.350 --> 00:18:11.330 The Teachers: I wonder if we should also mention the possibility of virtual songs, in other words, not necessarily warm bodies meeting in the same room at a particular location every 2 weeks. But people who come together. 149 00:18:11.710 --> 00:18:21.549 The Teachers: for example, like on a course like this, who have shared interests and want to keep the conversation going. They'll meet up on Zoom, and this is again. One of the 150 00:18:22.420 --> 00:18:30.539 The Teachers: things we learned during the Covid lockdown is that in the organization I'm involved with Bodie College. we ran our courses online. 151 00:18:30.580 --> 00:18:35.910 The Teachers: and as a result, people were no longer could participate, no matter where they lived. 152 00:18:35.970 --> 00:18:37.140 The Teachers: And this meant 153 00:18:37.310 --> 00:18:42.160 The Teachers: through the breakout groups and interchanges that communities began to form. 154 00:18:42.310 --> 00:18:45.960 The Teachers: not based on physical location at all 155 00:18:46.090 --> 00:18:55.600 The Teachers: that has its pluses and minuses. Obviously, it's not as intimate. You don't have that immediate, direct human interaction. But, on the other hand, it's 156 00:18:55.630 --> 00:18:58.489 The Teachers: considerable improvement, having no interaction at all. 157 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:09.229 The Teachers: And, for example, the group that's meeting here with us now in Brisbane. They formed during one of these courses a couple of years ago, and it's extraordinary how 158 00:19:09.270 --> 00:19:14.390 The Teachers: that those sorts of communities can sustain themselves, because you have the obvious advantage 159 00:19:14.430 --> 00:19:17.790 The Teachers: to go to your Sangha meeting. You just have to switch on your computer. 160 00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:25.549 The Teachers: You don't have to go anywhere or anything like that. And so that's I think, an option that's emerging 161 00:19:25.780 --> 00:19:33.010 The Teachers: in our current world. It also, of course, means you're not polluting the atmosphere by driving a car all that stuff. 162 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.420 The Teachers: So that would be another option that 163 00:19:35.520 --> 00:19:38.690 The Teachers: some of us might be interested in pursuing, too. 164 00:19:39.460 --> 00:19:42.169 The Teachers: and if I could add to that 165 00:19:42.190 --> 00:19:58.170 The Teachers: in the spirit of both, and which I've been banging on a lot about this week. Is that there are hybrid sunders to Kookaburra. You guys have both people who come in person and there's the option to come online. 166 00:19:59.010 --> 00:20:00.590 The Teachers: It alternates. Okay? 167 00:20:00.770 --> 00:20:05.209 The Teachers: So you have a hybrid one week and a non hybrid to next. Okay? Same with 168 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:18.270 The Teachers: blue gum blue gum, does it? As well. Yeah. And I mean, I think beaches would be open to doing that. We haven't really discussed it. But I suspect if there were people who wanted to 169 00:20:19.080 --> 00:20:26.589 The Teachers: join in on our conversations there, there'd likely be an openness to that as well. Yeah. So there's lots of ways to do it. 170 00:20:29.150 --> 00:20:31.310 The Teachers: Microphone microphone. 171 00:20:31.910 --> 00:20:34.070 The Teachers: Okay, Tim. Here. 172 00:20:35.070 --> 00:20:40.129 The Teachers: third lessons. Most of what you've been saying is what Asanga is. Okay. 173 00:20:40.810 --> 00:20:44.359 The Teachers: I want to hear, how do you get the people there? 174 00:20:46.620 --> 00:20:48.849 The Teachers: What we 175 00:20:49.090 --> 00:20:50.450 The Teachers: advertisement? 176 00:20:50.470 --> 00:20:58.899 The Teachers: signs out front, but some some how. How does the mechanism of getting yourself? 177 00:20:59.150 --> 00:21:11.670 The Teachers: No one in the community happened. Yeah? Well, maybe I'll answer that first, and then the others can have a go. It's an interesting question for the singer that I attend, because 178 00:21:11.780 --> 00:21:13.870 The Teachers: well, initially. 179 00:21:14.330 --> 00:21:19.070 there were a bunch of people from Blue Gumsanga which at the time was quite big. 180 00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:29.849 The Teachers: There were a bunch of people who had been going there who live on the northern beaches. And so they came and started sitting and and meeting with us instead. So there was a bit of a 181 00:21:29.860 --> 00:21:49.130 The Teachers: pre existing. So you stole his people? Yes, and we stole some of the flock. So so that that was sort of how it started. It's an interesting question. And this is one of the questions we need to grapple with when we're running asanga is 182 00:21:49.570 --> 00:21:51.730 The Teachers: how big or 183 00:21:52.530 --> 00:22:00.040 The Teachers: how much of an open or closed kind of group. How big do we want it to be when we first started. 184 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:07.159 The Teachers: and for a lot of beaches Sunga's history, the meetings might have as few as 3 or 4 people turn up. 185 00:22:08.020 --> 00:22:12.580 The Teachers: and in some ways, especially in the early days, I kind of thought 186 00:22:12.700 --> 00:22:30.250 The Teachers: is this, you know, is this working? That's a few people. And then, as the years went on, people, I heard numerous people say that something they liked about beaches. Sangha was that it was small, and some people would go to blue gums, which was much more big, and you know. 187 00:22:30.340 --> 00:22:41.879 The Teachers: successful if you defined it in terms of numbers, and they felt a bit daunted about speaking up, because not only were there a lot of people, but there were a lot of experienced and knowledgeable, knowledgeable people. 188 00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:50.200 The Teachers: So if I was new and I didn't feel like I knew a lot about it, I might feel a bit backwards and coming forwards. 189 00:22:50.360 --> 00:23:00.980 The Teachers: One of our Sanga members. We we've talked about this issue because we've only yeah, we have about maybe 8 people who come regularly now, and another 5 who 190 00:23:01.280 --> 00:23:04.730 The Teachers: who come sometimes. And 191 00:23:04.840 --> 00:23:06.729 The Teachers: one of our members says. 192 00:23:06.980 --> 00:23:17.329 The Teachers: Beaches singer is the world's best kept secret. We have a website, and that's generally how people find us. They Google, Meditation, Northern beaches, or 193 00:23:17.340 --> 00:23:20.270 The Teachers: you know, Buddhism, Northern Beaches, or what have you? 194 00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:31.279 The Teachers: But we don't do any promotion. And from my selfish point of view, I'm kind of reluctant to promote it, because once it starts getting bigger. 195 00:23:31.850 --> 00:23:36.640 The Teachers: Yeah, I already kind of end up playing the role of teacher, which 196 00:23:36.890 --> 00:23:45.849 The Teachers: for my own selfish personal needs, I'd probably prefer a model where I wasn't and where there were, you know, was more 197 00:23:46.310 --> 00:23:50.330 The Teachers: self-driven and self-managed, and there were more experienced practitioners 198 00:23:50.410 --> 00:24:01.369 The Teachers: taking the lead. But it just so happens that the group was quite new to the dharma when when we changed this model. And so I had to sort of 199 00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:03.140 The Teachers: play that role. 200 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:09.650 The Teachers: But you know, wait. Does that role have to be? Does there someone have to be in that role 201 00:24:09.980 --> 00:24:27.479 The Teachers: with starting. I wouldn't say you do. I mean anyone could have a conversation, and with whatever knowledge of the dharma we have, and with whatever dummer practice we have from my perspective, there can be benefit in in that conversation. And even just. 202 00:24:27.520 --> 00:24:31.620 The Teachers: I find. So these days I find Sanga, primarily nourishing 203 00:24:32.390 --> 00:24:36.260 The Teachers: from being with other people who are on this path of trying to live. 204 00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:40.749 The Teachers: you know, courageous and aware and 205 00:24:41.120 --> 00:24:45.410 The Teachers: caring way in the world. So it's it's it's actually being with 206 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.799 The Teachers: my songa, which is what I get out of it these days. 207 00:24:50.800 --> 00:24:59.420 The Teachers: You would be an excellent politician. That was a yes or no? Answer. 208 00:25:00.260 --> 00:25:03.530 The Teachers: Yeah. So the issue of growing is an issue for the Sangha. 209 00:25:03.610 --> 00:25:09.490 The Teachers: That, I guess, is what I'm saying, and you need to kind of work that out yourself. We've got dye online, and then we've got John. 210 00:25:11.550 --> 00:25:22.819 DiPelletier: I'm Di, and I'm the manager of Blue Gong Sanga for my scenes. as you know now how old we are. We're one of the older sangers. 211 00:25:22.830 --> 00:25:31.229 DiPelletier: We lost certain people over to Kookaburra when they opened, and we felt that loss extremely. 212 00:25:31.410 --> 00:25:35.569 DiPelletier: but they have returned to us as teachers often time as well. 213 00:25:35.790 --> 00:25:43.640 DiPelletier: So we run I'll shorten this up a bit. We run on a hybrid model. We meet every Monday night 214 00:25:43.940 --> 00:25:47.540 DiPelletier: alternating between zoom and in-house. 215 00:25:47.790 --> 00:26:03.439 DiPelletier: This gives us the opportunities to draw in some very fine speakers. With great donna experience from outside of Sydney, and that's quite valued, and often there'll be a series of 2 or 3 deeper. 216 00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:10.089 DiPelletier: meaningful presentations. We are fortunate. We have a very, very nice 217 00:26:10.310 --> 00:26:12.740 DiPelletier: stable venue. 218 00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:23.539 DiPelletier: and we have one in House Dharma, teacher in the form of Jonathan Page, whom is well known to the senior folks here have been around as long as they have 219 00:26:24.290 --> 00:26:28.189 DiPelletier: the kookaburra people set come over when requested. 220 00:26:28.270 --> 00:26:38.789 DiPelletier: I was devastated when Winton retired, but no amount of arm twisting could get him to change that. But good to see him here for the finale. 221 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:53.329 DiPelletier: We have vote 24 on a list. and they get the occasional email from me, relevant things, handouts, etc. And we have a core group of about 8. 222 00:26:53.770 --> 00:27:02.690 DiPelletier: And some of the core group is now moving forward with their development to do their own presentations and and lead an evening. 223 00:27:02.770 --> 00:27:13.790 DiPelletier: We have occasional evenings of discussion. just discussion about some particular topic. but mostly were that eclectic speakers that was referred to. 224 00:27:14.060 --> 00:27:14.910 and 225 00:27:15.020 --> 00:27:26.710 DiPelletier: technically we started out as a Passana. But we are open to all all comers, and there's several people here who have taught at Blue Gomes. You can hear from the presentation 226 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:31.050 DiPelletier: and we have a web site and the key thing. 227 00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:40.579 DiPelletier: In addition to having our own teacher when needed, is Jonathan and having a great venue. 228 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:46.509 DiPelletier: we have a website, and sitting with you in that room is the guy that keeps my 229 00:27:46.550 --> 00:27:59.210 DiPelletier: website schedule up to date and corrects me when I'm wrong. And that's Guy. So we have to put a thank you out to him from blue gum. And from that website we can gather 230 00:27:59.380 --> 00:28:02.170 DiPelletier: people who 231 00:28:02.610 --> 00:28:06.670 DiPelletier: find us there. They may have some diamond experience. They may have no 232 00:28:06.950 --> 00:28:08.990 DiPelletier: meditation experience. 233 00:28:09.150 --> 00:28:21.660 DiPelletier: They are invited to come along zoom or in house. and we try to make them feel welcome. Try to guide them if they have no experience. Just to get through a sit. 234 00:28:21.970 --> 00:28:33.119 DiPelletier: We're pretty welcoming, and we have pretty nice refreshments. And back to the core group of 8 or 9 that are starting to take up a little bit of the leading discussions 235 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:48.570 DiPelletier: we've we've talked to them, and they are very happy as the little core group. They feel very nourished by the saying which is heartening for me, because it's quite an effort, as Lenore has said, to keep it going? 236 00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:53.980 DiPelletier: I'm puzzled about the other ones on our list. 237 00:28:54.100 --> 00:28:56.200 DiPelletier: That don't attend at all. 238 00:28:56.490 --> 00:29:06.020 DiPelletier: I've asked them a bit about, you know something they would like, and I should probably put more effort into that. They don't want to be taken off list. They absolutely refuse that 239 00:29:06.170 --> 00:29:09.459 DiPelletier: and they keep occasionally some of them will turn up 240 00:29:09.840 --> 00:29:16.579 DiPelletier: if you just popped in from the web, and, you know, spent 1 one meeting or 2 meetings with us. 241 00:29:16.750 --> 00:29:23.620 DiPelletier: You don't end up on the on the list, you know, after you've been there a few times, or communicating with this in house. 242 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.400 DiPelletier: Then I asked them if they'd like to be on the list. That's how it has grown. 243 00:29:27.470 --> 00:29:38.949 DiPelletier: But there's been people there. And some 2 of our people are on the in-house. No one's in house with you up there, and one's online and they may have comments. But 244 00:29:39.140 --> 00:29:45.009 DiPelletier: I'm open to questions. That's really the essence of blue gum at the moment. 245 00:29:46.410 --> 00:29:47.900 The Teachers: Thank thank you very much. 246 00:29:51.510 --> 00:29:52.180 The Teachers: Oh. 247 00:29:55.520 --> 00:30:03.510 The Teachers: ready to go right? Just a practical question. Probably you might be able to help us with Winton, and considering setting one up 248 00:30:03.670 --> 00:30:05.409 The Teachers: things like 249 00:30:05.600 --> 00:30:11.830 The Teachers: day of the week. So you have weekly meetings. Is there a day that settled? That works best for people. What time? 250 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:19.220 The Teachers: How long do you meet for is there a standard format? And lastly, what sort of 251 00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:25.850 The Teachers: profile of participants have you been able to attract 252 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:30.920 The Teachers: male female, younger, older. non-english speaking background, etc. 253 00:30:32.610 --> 00:30:34.179 Yes. 254 00:30:35.290 --> 00:30:45.130 The Teachers: I'll just try and remember the list. Yeah, we we we meet on a Monday like blue gum does we meet once a week. 255 00:30:45.560 --> 00:30:50.279 The idea is to get there at 7. We start sitting at 7 15. 256 00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:53.739 The Teachers: Sit for 30 min. There's a 257 00:30:53.960 --> 00:31:02.649 The Teachers: 10 min tea break, which sometimes becomes a bit longer and then there's a presentation, and 258 00:31:02.810 --> 00:31:09.180 The Teachers: a discussion goes on. And the way we've organized it now is basically 259 00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:18.500 The Teachers: that that the initial contribution way of introducing a discussion will go on on a zoom night. 260 00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:23.120 The Teachers: and then we can discuss it more fully on a face-to-face night. 261 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:27.039 The Teachers: and I think that 262 00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:35.809 The Teachers: As far as meetings are concerned, every other sangrove had anything to do with seems to work on basically the same format. 263 00:31:36.150 --> 00:31:41.060 The Teachers: There's begin with sit. And then there's a 264 00:31:41.110 --> 00:31:42.290 The Teachers: tea break 265 00:31:42.340 --> 00:31:44.869 The Teachers: in a bit of 266 00:31:45.460 --> 00:31:56.099 The Teachers: face device contact, and then there'll be a discussion and end up at 90'clock. 9, 15, something like that, as far as the day of the week is concerned. 267 00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:12.970 The Teachers: you, you really gotta feel it out. I think you know depending on who's there. And you know, if they absolutely make watch full corners on a Monday night, or if they absolutely gotta watch one of the 268 00:32:12.970 --> 00:32:28.370 The Teachers: shows on Wednesday, not in the ABC. W. Watches commercial television, of course. But the, but it depends on what other people, what other things people have on. But Thursday and Monday seem to be 269 00:32:28.490 --> 00:32:34.749 The Teachers: pretty popular days, you know, when people aren't otherwise engaged. 270 00:32:35.320 --> 00:32:39.349 The Teachers: Was there another question. The the another issue? 271 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:42.390 The Teachers: Oh, profiles. 272 00:32:42.740 --> 00:32:56.420 The Teachers: people under 80 are welcome. We? Yeah, it's the 273 00:32:56.700 --> 00:33:05.910 The Teachers: the profit. I mean, I yeah, I have to admit that. There are not many people who are under middle age 274 00:33:06.030 --> 00:33:09.970 The Teachers: not many some so 275 00:33:10.300 --> 00:33:30.380 The Teachers: all I can say is that the rest of us are young at heart, and so I think that's general in in. Most saying is that I've had anything to do with, and I've got a theory about that middle age. You hit the wall in some way or another, and then you're interested in suffering, and you 276 00:33:30.620 --> 00:33:38.660 The Teachers: and you gravitate towards a Buddhist group. But but it's hard to get the young folks in. 277 00:33:39.450 --> 00:33:40.130 Because 278 00:33:41.580 --> 00:33:46.870 The Teachers: so just another cause, we're a little bit different. We're probably 279 00:33:47.910 --> 00:33:50.320 The Teachers: 50 50 gender 280 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:56.439 The Teachers: of the group that there's probably maybe 6 of us who are pretty reliably there. 281 00:33:57.070 --> 00:34:00.750 The Teachers: It's probably actually it's probably 2 female for male 282 00:34:00.930 --> 00:34:04.710 The Teachers: where I don't think we have any 283 00:34:04.780 --> 00:34:08.440 The Teachers: over the age of about 284 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:13.020 The Teachers: mid-sixties. So we're probably we're more very sort of 285 00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:37.349 The Teachers: thirties and forties and fifties. No one member who sort of comes and goes a little bit, who in their twenties. But the the core group that sort of turns up every week. And this is a blessing because they're in child rearing, you know, parenting smack, bang in the middle of that. So sometimes. 286 00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:39.969 The Teachers: you know, getting there is hard. 287 00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:46.000 The Teachers: we do. Thursday nights. 288 00:34:46.190 --> 00:34:50.389 The Teachers: 7 until 9 30. Very similar format. 289 00:34:50.870 --> 00:35:09.539 The Teachers: Meditate cup of tea. Sometimes cup of tea sort of. We just take it in and we start talking. We'll often have a where, as I think, I mentioned before. We're currently going through my book as a stimulus for discussion. But we've got a couple of others sort of ready and waiting after we finish that. So all of these decisions? 290 00:35:09.550 --> 00:35:13.240 The Teachers: Again, I go back to the people who are committed to coming. 291 00:35:13.410 --> 00:35:18.179 The Teachers: Make these decisions, you know for yourselves. When to meet. 292 00:35:18.370 --> 00:35:22.169 The Teachers: how to meet, where to meet, what? What to do when you meet. 293 00:35:22.870 --> 00:35:26.290 The Teachers: as long as it's valuable, and it's helping support your 294 00:35:26.870 --> 00:35:30.959 The Teachers: practice. And and I would just say, as long as it's 295 00:35:31.120 --> 00:35:33.060 The Teachers: you know, nurturing your 296 00:35:34.230 --> 00:35:37.379 The Teachers: for me, sanger really nurtures my energy 297 00:35:37.640 --> 00:35:39.590 The Teachers: for for Duma. 298 00:35:40.020 --> 00:35:43.110 The Teachers: it's a nurturing. We're generating things. 299 00:35:44.580 --> 00:35:53.789 The Teachers: So I thank you. at Vivian. This is Andy from Kookaburra. Vivian Langford, who's up on the screen, actually invited 300 00:35:54.160 --> 00:36:02.179 The Teachers: me a few weeks ago to come to Golden Wattlesanger. Thank you, Vivian. And What I found really valuable about 301 00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:11.519 The Teachers: talk going to Golden Model to speak. I'm not a Dharma teacher at all, and Vivian knew that. It was really to reflect about what made 302 00:36:11.650 --> 00:36:17.309 The Teachers: what we felt. Kookaburra was why, why it was working for us. 303 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:19.490 The Teachers: and 304 00:36:19.530 --> 00:36:40.369 The Teachers: it was good to be asked. Thank you, Vivian, because it really made me do some deep reflection about what worked what was still a challenge And so I just want to offer a couple of things. I'll try and be as brief as possible. But a couple of things have come up just even discussion today. But over the last week. 305 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.650 The Teachers: over lunch about teachers. And 306 00:36:46.890 --> 00:36:59.570 The Teachers: I now understand the meaning of the comment that we heard a week at Martine's workshop that we're a closed sanger. We're not a closed sanger at all, but we don't, as Winton said, have outside teachers. 307 00:36:59.650 --> 00:37:07.509 The Teachers: and we actually only have 2 experienced Dharma teachers, Darwin and Winton, in our Sanger. 308 00:37:07.520 --> 00:37:18.459 The Teachers: and I remember the meetings we had, one of which was in our light lounge room. One, I think, was in Gowan's when we were first setting it up. and there are a few non-negotiables. 309 00:37:18.680 --> 00:37:24.560 The Teachers: One was that we would not have one teacher at all. 310 00:37:24.970 --> 00:37:33.639 The Teachers: and you could be a teacher. This is 1 point of slight, I suppose a question I'll pose. 311 00:37:33.710 --> 00:37:37.090 The Teachers: Lenore is, you can actually be a teacher from where you are. 312 00:37:37.390 --> 00:37:44.400 The Teachers: and what is so rich and wonderful about the teachings we hear every week. 313 00:37:44.570 --> 00:37:48.960 The Teachers: that people will bring. 314 00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:53.099 The Teachers: We have a session called the dharma of of what we do 315 00:37:53.410 --> 00:38:06.939 The Teachers: that sort of rotates randomly. And that's where people will may be coming to the dharma fairly recently, but they understand enough about the 4 tasks and the eightfold path, and 316 00:38:07.140 --> 00:38:13.960 The Teachers: so forth, to to bring an understanding of that to an element of their life. 317 00:38:14.470 --> 00:38:21.020 The Teachers: and that session can be long or short. But some examples. 318 00:38:21.300 --> 00:38:24.250 The Teachers: Somebody who's passionate about gardening. 319 00:38:24.550 --> 00:38:29.820 The Teachers: Maureen. She's quite, quite quiet a lot of the time. 320 00:38:29.860 --> 00:38:33.339 The Teachers: but she gave the most exquisite. 321 00:38:33.430 --> 00:38:35.560 The Teachers: deeply reflective 322 00:38:35.790 --> 00:38:42.319 The Teachers: empowering, touching 323 00:38:43.030 --> 00:38:45.470 The Teachers: talk about the dharma of gardening. 324 00:38:46.010 --> 00:39:02.450 The Teachers: and how she walks around her garden every morning and and talks to the plants and watches them grow, and and so forth. And other people have talked about the dharma of cooking or the dharma of music. If they're musicians. We've had a couple from Tiberio about the dharma of 325 00:39:02.610 --> 00:39:08.930 The Teachers: AI or ethical AI it's just fantastic, because 326 00:39:09.060 --> 00:39:11.820 The Teachers: the rest of the community just 327 00:39:12.570 --> 00:39:18.790 The Teachers: get right into that life of theirs, and where the dharma speaks to that 328 00:39:18.830 --> 00:39:32.600 The Teachers: but we also have very, very lay people who say, you know what I've this happened. I won't. I won't name the person in the room that said this, that you know I've I've been sort of. 329 00:39:32.650 --> 00:39:34.350 The Teachers: I've got this sort of 330 00:39:34.530 --> 00:40:00.530 The Teachers: still bit of a challenge around the so and I remember I was zooming at the time, and I said, Oh, well, ex you. You looks like you'll be filling our vacant slot next week to talk about the vetness. And that person said, Yeah, alright. I'll give it a crack now they can either go off on their own and do some meeting and bring their own perspective, or they might ask somebody more experienced. I know that Winton sometimes being called on, they've said, Look, I'd love to talk about. 331 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:23.000 The Teachers: not self. But I really need a bit of a goal post, and Wynton said, sure. Take me for a coffee, and we'll go and chat, and then that person will bring their perspective. Likewise we've had people say, look, I'm a bit nervous. I'd like to talk about the dharma of retirement. But is there anybody else in the room who wants to share that talk with me? And then they'll tag team. They'll tag team 332 00:40:23.010 --> 00:40:27.190 The Teachers: a presentation. So there's a few things about 333 00:40:27.370 --> 00:40:30.019 The Teachers: about the not the not teacher 334 00:40:30.100 --> 00:40:31.490 The Teachers: that 335 00:40:31.590 --> 00:40:37.039 The Teachers: has been incredibly empowering for everyone as a group. 336 00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:42.499 The Teachers: One is, we don't have a teacher at the front. 337 00:40:42.530 --> 00:40:50.410 The Teachers: and people sitting in front of them. We always sit in a circle always. We all face each other. 338 00:40:50.610 --> 00:41:00.420 The Teachers: meditate together. And then whoever's teaching that night, and then, and also we don't talk about a teacher. Whoever's built facilitating the discussion that night 339 00:41:00.750 --> 00:41:04.869 The Teachers: is has the bill, and they'll 340 00:41:04.900 --> 00:41:07.100 The Teachers: facilitate. They'll give a little talk. 341 00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:12.080 The Teachers: and then we have questions, and the discussion is often really, really rich. 342 00:41:13.080 --> 00:41:17.900 The Teachers: The second thing it it does is that people don't feel 343 00:41:17.990 --> 00:41:19.390 The Teachers: intimidated. 344 00:41:20.220 --> 00:41:31.130 The Teachers: They don't, you know. We we have to constantly remind people to not feel scared. but to say, Hey, just bring where you are. Bring a question if you like. 345 00:41:31.710 --> 00:41:40.390 The Teachers: Bring bring your question. Do a bit of research if you wouldn't mind, but it doesn't. You don't have to become an expert. 346 00:41:40.750 --> 00:41:47.970 The Teachers: and people don't feel intimidated to speak. Then nobody's nobody's rubbished and ridiculed 347 00:41:48.180 --> 00:41:51.980 The Teachers: everybody's respected and heard. 348 00:41:52.370 --> 00:42:08.939 The Teachers: and for us. I mean, we we started 6 years ago. At the beginning. We had about 10 people coming regularly. After a few years. We were averaging averaging 11. We'd have as many as 22 in the room sometimes 349 00:42:09.220 --> 00:42:11.940 The Teachers: and as as few as 4. 350 00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:14.600 The Teachers: But then Covid hit. 351 00:42:14.930 --> 00:42:21.259 The Teachers: and everybody said, Oh, we've got such a good vibe face to face. We can't do it, we can't do it. We're not going on line. 352 00:42:21.270 --> 00:42:26.369 The Teachers: And then, after a couple of weeks. Peter said to me, Hey, you know. 353 00:42:26.670 --> 00:42:38.049 The Teachers: do you think would you mind hosting zoom sessions? So we we started zoom sessions, and II remember thinking, Oh, well, probably only get a couple of people. But our Sanga group insights. 354 00:42:38.810 --> 00:42:51.420 The Teachers: During Covid we were averaging about 21 people averaging like multiple pages on the Zoom screen. and most people would speak. Most people had a go. 355 00:42:51.770 --> 00:43:09.009 The Teachers: Now the numbers have dropped off a little bit more, but we've had to keep the hybrid, the the the hybrid, flipping model. Because we've got valuable and loved Sanga members, John from Lismore and Anne from Anne, for from Canberra, from example, who 356 00:43:09.310 --> 00:43:18.869 The Teachers: they can't come to Sydney, let alone inner West Sydney. But we could not lose the people that have become part of our singer. 357 00:43:19.150 --> 00:43:33.689 The Teachers: So that's been amazing. The final thing I'll say, and then I shut up is to answer your your question, Tim. We don't advertise, either. We don't have a website, but we have a one page flyer, and we're listed with SIM. 358 00:43:33.740 --> 00:43:36.720 The Teachers: So what one page runner 359 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:49.590 The Teachers: I'm I'm about to. I'm about to tell you so people will see the Co. The Kookaburra email address. They'll email, the Kookaburra email address. And it used to be just Peter. But there's a few of us now who run it together as a 360 00:43:49.940 --> 00:44:07.110 The Teachers: not even a committee. We just all share tasks, but there is like a gatekeeper, if you like. That's a terrible term, but just somebody who who takes the emails and communicates with somebody, and they send them that one pager and says, Look, you're very welcome. But perhaps you might just want to read this first. Make sure you're good with it. 361 00:44:07.130 --> 00:44:20.770 The Teachers: And what usually happens at that point is, people will quite often. you know, I might. I think I'm representing this correctly, Peter. People people will often say, Oh, I was really looking for a meditation group. I wanted to learn how to meditate. 362 00:44:20.810 --> 00:44:25.640 The Teachers: Now we do sit for half an hour, but it's not learn how to meditate. 363 00:44:25.680 --> 00:44:27.819 The Teachers: and it talks a little bit about our 364 00:44:28.450 --> 00:44:44.519 The Teachers: generally more secular approach. But it's. It's just basically saying, this is, this is the principles that we're we generally come from. We're not exclusive, exclusionary, but it's just a one pager. By the by the time people have read that they go. Yeah, that sounds like me or not. 365 00:44:44.730 --> 00:44:47.040 The Teachers: and then they will or won't 366 00:44:47.160 --> 00:44:56.309 The Teachers: come along. So that's and we haven't really had to advertise. I mean, there's probably a lot of people out there who'd be interested to join. But 367 00:44:57.350 --> 00:45:04.680 The Teachers: we're not dwindling in numbers. Yeah. they yep got it? 368 00:45:04.830 --> 00:45:07.920 The Teachers: Well, I'll answer that question, but also just 369 00:45:07.990 --> 00:45:10.609 The Teachers: indicate how inclusive we are 370 00:45:10.900 --> 00:45:15.400 The Teachers: when a request comes in for more information. 371 00:45:15.580 --> 00:45:19.340 The Teachers: I send that out to whoever 372 00:45:19.640 --> 00:45:24.119 The Teachers: and at the same time inform them they are a member of the Kukubara group. 373 00:45:24.640 --> 00:45:25.550 The Teachers: Then 374 00:45:26.410 --> 00:45:37.919 The Teachers: they get a little automated email response from our bot that tells them that they remember, but says at any time you can self unsubscribe. 375 00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:42.720 The Teachers: So then they read their one page up and go. This is for me 376 00:45:43.470 --> 00:45:45.260 The Teachers: I'm in. I'll give it a go. 377 00:45:45.590 --> 00:45:49.750 The Teachers: They might read that one page and say, No, I'm not. 378 00:45:49.810 --> 00:45:54.330 The Teachers: I'm self unsubscribing. so the vetting is really 379 00:45:54.520 --> 00:46:01.530 The Teachers: pretty inclusive. We just base it on our one pager. This is our baseline. 380 00:46:01.560 --> 00:46:15.180 The Teachers: and then you're away or not, they on on the same website. They're given on the same website, Sydney, inside 381 00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:16.609 The Teachers: what was sideline? 382 00:46:16.950 --> 00:46:25.310 The Teachers: Yeah, it'll show the the different sungers, Northern beaches or gold gold model. 383 00:46:25.610 --> 00:46:30.439 The Teachers: And it'll give a location where they are. So if people are so eating in a city. 384 00:46:30.680 --> 00:46:33.590 The Teachers: but also I'll look through and go. Oh, that's an inner city one. 385 00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:38.329 The Teachers: That's the Kookaburra Sango. So then the Kookaburra address is given. 386 00:46:38.430 --> 00:46:40.449 The Teachers: and that and that comes to 387 00:46:40.720 --> 00:46:48.629 The Teachers: to a group of us, to me, and I handle all the to a correspondence at that level and send out the one pager. 388 00:46:49.120 --> 00:47:01.210 The Teachers: Could I just respond to the issue of the teacher thing? Because I think it's important? 389 00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:13.200 The Teachers: I agree with almost everything. That Andy just said and describes, even though I said, I'm a teacher there. That's exactly what we do. We sit in a circle. 390 00:47:13.450 --> 00:47:17.810 The Teachers: I don't do all the talking by any means. But 391 00:47:18.570 --> 00:47:25.730 The Teachers: when you've got a group, and I'm saying this because there might be groups like this that are thinking of forming from here 392 00:47:26.090 --> 00:47:31.159 The Teachers: that it is different. If in the group there are not experienced practitioners. 393 00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:39.770 The Teachers: because you do. I have actually tried exactly what you said of having people in the group talk and 394 00:47:40.120 --> 00:47:41.679 The Teachers: there's a 395 00:47:42.000 --> 00:47:48.030 The Teachers: it's all well and good. But if you've got beginners or people who are not confident in their knowledge. 396 00:47:48.190 --> 00:47:54.550 The Teachers: They will be, they will say to you, I'm not sure if this is right, but 397 00:47:54.580 --> 00:48:00.090 The Teachers: or I don't know what the dharma says about this, or 398 00:48:00.570 --> 00:48:09.630 The Teachers: they will, they will want to. Some people come there to burn the Duma. So yes, you can have fantastic discussions. 399 00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:15.630 The Teachers: but if you've got a group of beginners, and so this really depends on the group that you've got. 400 00:48:15.870 --> 00:48:21.220 The Teachers: there are some people who will be wanting. They'll come to the group wanting to 401 00:48:21.240 --> 00:48:24.339 The Teachers: learn. Learn from more than just a book 402 00:48:24.380 --> 00:48:26.840 The Teachers: about what the Duma says about something. 403 00:48:27.290 --> 00:48:46.909 The Teachers: So I that's where I think, absolutely agree with you in terms of the. you know, being participatory and not setting it up with a teacher out the front and everybody else in, you know, everywhere else, it's it's a really good model to have. And now our saying is, you know, extremely participatory when it comes to conversation. 404 00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:59.669 The Teachers: but it just they can. I anticipate that if there was a group of people here who are thinking, oh, maybe I'll set it up, and then they they meet with each other, and then they all realize they're all 405 00:48:59.740 --> 00:49:06.159 The Teachers: kind of just starting out in their, you know, exploration of the dharma, and they don't feel confident in that. 406 00:49:06.230 --> 00:49:08.810 The Teachers: Then there may be the issue of well. 407 00:49:08.820 --> 00:49:12.270 The Teachers: who can we turn to to help us 408 00:49:12.680 --> 00:49:26.869 The Teachers: and teach us? And the 3 of us were talking about this the other day and saying with Zoom, and what have you? You know? Even if you're not here, there are potentially people. If you wanted some yeah, actual dharma teaching input 409 00:49:27.390 --> 00:49:31.820 The Teachers: there are potentially people who could join in remotely as well. 410 00:49:32.170 --> 00:49:33.839 The Teachers: So it depends on the group you've got. 411 00:49:35.470 --> 00:49:41.779 The Teachers: Okay. I'm both aware of the time, and I will be brief. I'm just like to offer a slightly different model of Sanger. 412 00:49:42.310 --> 00:49:46.899 which is a one we hold at my place, and have been holding for about 8 years. 413 00:49:46.910 --> 00:49:55.379 The Teachers: In fact, Kate, James, and Di are quite regular attendance. The in this particular Sanger people come for dinner. 414 00:49:55.660 --> 00:50:03.199 The Teachers: They bring a plate, we share a dinner for an hour, and then we sit for 45 min, and then there's a an open conversation 415 00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:08.539 The Teachers: which always begins with a check in people. Say, How was your other? Your meditation, or your week? 416 00:50:08.890 --> 00:50:16.810 The Teachers: And from that arises a topic of the Dharma as is being lived. We do not have talks, we do not explore 417 00:50:16.930 --> 00:50:35.789 The Teachers: any of the suitors or anything like that. It's more. What is the lived experience? People would, you know. Sometimes the theme arises that someone has been death in someone's life. And now someone, everyone's like reflecting on what what's that is? That topic has meant for them, and mostly are encouraged to share from personal experience. 418 00:50:35.980 --> 00:50:53.749 The Teachers: And we find, whenever it's like that, people feel very connected. And it's very much a friendship kind of circle, you could say. And then after that we ring the bell and the conversations finish, and we have more tea and cake, and so it goes on from sometime from 60'clock to 10 Pm. 419 00:50:53.820 --> 00:51:11.929 The Teachers: People, of course, can leave anytime. They want. Some people come just for the meditation and and open inquiry, some people come for the dinner, and the whole the whole thing just a a different model. It only started with just 4 of us who have been on a retreat together, we said, Oh, after the treat, why don't we meet together? 420 00:51:12.110 --> 00:51:17.990 The Teachers: And the only entrance to be part of this group is, you have to have done a retreat. 421 00:51:18.510 --> 00:51:23.779 The Teachers: We only accept people who have done a retreat before, and our group has. Yeah, it's been very 422 00:51:24.150 --> 00:51:31.180 The Teachers: people. Come and go on life circumstance. But it continues on 8 years later. But we do it once a month only. 423 00:51:31.630 --> 00:51:37.239 The Teachers: Okay, it's a different model. It's also very easy model to start. And it's very much about friendship and connection. 424 00:51:37.250 --> 00:51:41.129 The Teachers: It almost feels like we're witnessing each other's lives and and development 425 00:51:41.340 --> 00:51:45.189 The Teachers: as people go through the various losses and gains in life. 426 00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:47.719 The Teachers: Thank you. Do you have a name? 427 00:51:48.330 --> 00:51:56.180 The Teachers: It's not a name, and it's not public, and it's not on the SIM one of the same, saying, it's it's purely a a saying that's really on on the side. 428 00:51:56.450 --> 00:51:57.380 The Teachers: Okay. 429 00:51:57.750 --> 00:52:01.490 The Teachers: no name. Actually sorry. It has got a name it's called sang sang 430 00:52:01.680 --> 00:52:17.130 The Teachers: Anna. And then online. 431 00:52:17.200 --> 00:52:34.779 The Teachers: Margaret, I think everybody wants to go East Coast. Yeah, we're used to it. The rolling stones flew right from Melbourne. So 432 00:52:34.970 --> 00:52:38.729 The Teachers: yeah, I'm aware of the time. And the 433 00:52:39.510 --> 00:52:44.489 The Teachers: is half a dozen people from our group up there. 5 people. 434 00:52:46.620 --> 00:53:08.079 The Teachers: we've been going for about 25 years, and I there isn't time to tell all the models that we've been through. We've we've done what Alan's done. We've done. You've done, etcetera. So I don't wanna kind of spend too much time talking about the different models. But we've kind of gone through them all in 25 years. 435 00:53:08.270 --> 00:53:21.910 The Teachers: we've got a committee. It's Dharma in daily life. We have cohorts. I mean, basically, there's 2 motherships, Adelaide in Goa after 436 00:53:22.700 --> 00:53:34.370 The Teachers: after Covid, the Adelaide one shutdown, but we still have little satellite groups. Who that appear run we used to. It used to be 7, I think. Now it's down to about 4 437 00:53:34.580 --> 00:53:47.580 The Teachers: and they run themselves in various ways, some with meals, some not and we get new ones. We can get new ones, every retreat a new one just started a few weeks ago. 438 00:53:47.720 --> 00:53:56.180 The Teachers: I think it's easier just to say if you've got any questions about how to to do this like, I say, we've just done them all. 439 00:53:56.850 --> 00:54:08.409 The Teachers: What's worked is doing. The wall, I think now is very different to when I started it in the late Ninetys. I think 440 00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:16.380 The Teachers: every time we have a retreat there's nothing like a retreat, or even a guest. Speaker to your town like go is a very small town. 441 00:54:16.520 --> 00:54:32.179 The Teachers: you know that a retreat always brings new enthusiasm. So get them to join a group. Even if it's online. We've got an online group every morning except for Fridays, which a lot of people here belong to. 442 00:54:32.240 --> 00:54:34.870 The Teachers: It's every morning for 45 min. 443 00:54:34.930 --> 00:54:41.970 The Teachers: Anyway, like, I say we've got all gone through the whole deal and 444 00:54:42.340 --> 00:54:53.360 The Teachers: So if anyone's got any questions, just come and ask me, I guess, is the best one. But I also just want to say that extinction rebellion is a Dharma group for me. 445 00:54:53.490 --> 00:54:59.499 The Teachers: They're very active that they're really based on care. 446 00:54:59.630 --> 00:55:13.790 The Teachers: Nobody works alone. Everybody works from small picture to big picture to small picture. There's education. There's we take all people. It's really a dama group for me. So 447 00:55:13.790 --> 00:55:31.159 The Teachers: I don't know what it's like in other States, but very thoughtful deep thinkers. We have a minute silence before every meeting. I just wanna see to recommend something like Xr as a Demo group. But just come and ask me if you've got any questions. 448 00:55:33.700 --> 00:55:38.260 The Teachers: I'm aware that it is actually now already into the 449 00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:42.760 The Teachers: meditation, and I think we do need to honor that. 450 00:55:43.310 --> 00:55:49.580 The Teachers: I hope this meeting has been fruitful. It's been extremely interesting just hearing the variety of 451 00:55:49.600 --> 00:55:51.329 The Teachers: options on the table. 452 00:55:51.470 --> 00:56:01.779 The Teachers: and if you are interested in, you know, being joining any of these groups, then why not just contact? The various speakers have spoken and take the conversation from there. 453 00:56:02.120 --> 00:56:09.639 The Teachers: I guess that's probably where we need to draw a line. Yes, go on 454 00:56:09.960 --> 00:56:10.760 The Teachers: state 455 00:56:17.430 --> 00:56:19.810 The Teachers: to the album contact. 456 00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:23.820 In fact, we're circulating very easy. right. 457 00:56:24.990 --> 00:56:25.880 madam. 458 00:56:28.080 --> 00:56:30.559 The Teachers: or a lot of them a lot. 459 00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:38.500 Yeah. 460 00:56:39.550 --> 00:56:41.620 The Teachers: Oh, sorry. 461 00:56:42.140 --> 00:56:48.260 The Teachers: I'm sorry. Just a suggestion that people who have a sanger who feel that they could 462 00:56:48.370 --> 00:57:01.469 The Teachers: take on or host. Some people who wanted to join could just put their details down on a notice, or in some way, and it could be circulated to people who have been here on this retreat, and then the connection is easily made 463 00:57:03.360 --> 00:57:12.750 The Teachers: and that would be circulated. We get the information, then email it out after the retreat. Yeah, after the retreat. And then if someone wants to know more about 464 00:57:13.340 --> 00:57:35.809 The Teachers: actually did, they'd have a phone number. They could ring. Okay, I think, what? Basically, anyone who has anything to do anything to say around Sangha, please email it to the Dharma address. That's we've all got. We've all been emailed with that and I will compile that, probably after the retreat and circulate it. 465 00:57:37.460 --> 00:57:40.170 The Teachers: Thank you. Thank you. Hmm.