WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.110 Stephen: Concluding talk on the theme of the 2 00:00:05.550 --> 00:00:13.630 Stephen: earthly eightfold path. I'm inclining that way now. 3 00:00:16.110 --> 00:00:19.709 Stephen: But before I 4 00:00:19.720 --> 00:00:23.370 Stephen: focus in on this final phase. 5 00:00:23.930 --> 00:00:28.970 Stephen: that of one's voice speech. 6 00:00:29.930 --> 00:00:33.499 Stephen: I'd like to put it into the context of the 7 00:00:33.990 --> 00:00:42.729 Stephen: the the chart here, the cartography of care. So I hope you've brought your copy of it along. 8 00:00:43.440 --> 00:00:51.779 Stephen: If not, well, you'll just have to do it out it it's not too important 9 00:00:56.250 --> 00:00:57.030 Stephen: data. 10 00:00:58.310 --> 00:01:00.280 There you go. You're saying. 11 00:01:00.490 --> 00:01:04.609 Stephen: What can you do? And I don't think there are any spares either. 12 00:01:08.940 --> 00:01:15.739 Stephen: this I call this the cartography of Care, because cartography is a kind of a map 13 00:01:17.320 --> 00:01:27.719 Stephen: map, of course, is not the Territory, but it does provide us with an orientation. It provides us with a sense of where we're going. of what we're going to encounter along the way. 14 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.290 Stephen: and it identifies the key points of 15 00:01:32.670 --> 00:01:33.710 Stephen: reference. 16 00:01:35.860 --> 00:01:39.020 Stephen: as you can see, and we've already looked at this 17 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:43.419 Stephen: already. I break this down primarily into the 4 18 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:52.850 Stephen: tasks, and these are these 4 columns. color coded to correspond with the those primary elements of 19 00:01:53.390 --> 00:01:56.240 Stephen: of color element season. 20 00:01:56.310 --> 00:01:57.340 Stephen: and so on. 21 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:02.410 Stephen: But at the heart of it lies 22 00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:06.190 Stephen: the column, the thickest 23 00:02:06.250 --> 00:02:11.889 Stephen: Horizontal column at the bottom, which is labeled The 32 Virtues and skills. 24 00:02:13.710 --> 00:02:16.360 Stephen: And that's why I'm just going to briefly 25 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:27.330 Stephen: go through that and see how these virtues and skills correlate with each of the 4 tasks. 26 00:02:28.370 --> 00:02:31.800 Stephen: Now, this correlation. The identifying of the 27 00:02:32.190 --> 00:02:39.710 Stephen: particular virtues and skills to the particular tasks or or paths is not found in the Pali tradition. 28 00:02:40.830 --> 00:02:52.170 Stephen: It has survived in the Mahayana traditions that went to Tibet through an Indian North Indian school called the Sevastavada. 29 00:02:52.990 --> 00:02:54.340 Stephen: not 30 00:02:54.520 --> 00:03:00.600 Stephen: the the schools that developed in Sri Lanka, and then went into Southeast Asia. 31 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:05.010 Stephen: So 32 00:03:06.540 --> 00:03:09.740 Stephen: the first task is to 33 00:03:10.140 --> 00:03:11.460 Stephen: embrace 34 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:14.889 Stephen: suffering, to embrace life. 35 00:03:16.320 --> 00:03:24.199 Stephen: One of the burning questions someone put in the box asked about this term embrace. So I'll say a little bit about that. 36 00:03:25.500 --> 00:03:34.990 Stephen: The word impali is parina. which literally means something like comprehend. literally fully know something. 37 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:38.360 Stephen: But the word puri means around 38 00:03:38.730 --> 00:03:43.699 Stephen: like a Parikrma means a circumambulation 39 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:47.439 Stephen: route that goes round a mountain or a monastery. 40 00:03:47.960 --> 00:04:02.110 Stephen: So it's a kind of knowing that is also something that is encompassing. The Tibetans translate it as Yong Sousheba. which means to know something in its entirety 41 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:03.870 Stephen: completely. 42 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:16.470 Stephen: There is a definition the Buddha gave of what it means to embrace or to comprehend, or to know something completely. 43 00:04:18.310 --> 00:04:20.129 Stephen: And in this text 44 00:04:20.269 --> 00:04:25.079 Stephen: he's he's, he asked himself. What is it to know? Fully to embrace. 45 00:04:25.150 --> 00:04:26.360 Stephen: and he says. 46 00:04:26.540 --> 00:04:31.290 Stephen: to be without greed, to be without hatred, to be without 47 00:04:31.390 --> 00:04:33.780 Stephen: opinions or confusion. 48 00:04:35.730 --> 00:04:37.669 Stephen: which strikes one as a bit odd. 49 00:04:37.810 --> 00:04:48.869 Stephen: because that's exactly the same definition he gives to Nirvana exactly the same definition he gives to what is unconditioned. 50 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:54.290 Stephen: and exactly the same definition he gives for the deathless. 51 00:04:56.570 --> 00:05:02.590 Stephen: So I understand by that that this embrace 52 00:05:02.980 --> 00:05:05.479 Stephen: is somehow Nirvanic. 53 00:05:05.930 --> 00:05:14.850 Stephen: This is a comprehension, and embrace an engagement with life, with suffering that is not inflected 54 00:05:15.020 --> 00:05:18.339 Stephen: by our attachments, greed. 55 00:05:18.410 --> 00:05:29.060 Stephen: desire. hatred. fear. pre-formed opinions, to which were attached confusions, misperceptions, and so on. 56 00:05:30.580 --> 00:05:43.530 Stephen: So to embrace life is in a way to do so from a non reactive space. And this points, I think, to something rather important. It shows that 57 00:05:44.290 --> 00:05:45.470 Stephen: already 58 00:05:45.580 --> 00:05:51.849 Stephen: the third task, seeing reactivity stop, is implicit. In the first. 59 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:55.450 Stephen: there's already a taste 60 00:05:56.110 --> 00:06:01.430 Stephen: of that non-reactivity in the very notion of 61 00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:03.380 Stephen: embracing life. 62 00:06:06.950 --> 00:06:17.859 Stephen: When this is converted into a path, it's called the path of formation. This is the the phase of the practice in which you anywhere begin to form yourself. 63 00:06:17.900 --> 00:06:29.030 Stephen: Cultivate yourself, create yourself! Was that dimension to it as well. and it begins with the 4 foundations of mindfulness 64 00:06:29.650 --> 00:06:32.249 Stephen: which I understand to be 65 00:06:32.780 --> 00:06:36.169 Stephen: the existential dimension of mindfulness. 66 00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:43.730 Stephen: mindfulness that takes into account the sheer fact of our being alive, and we know that through 67 00:06:44.010 --> 00:06:54.880 Stephen: our body. in the first instance. the sensations in our body. the pumping of our heart. the firing of the neurons in our brain. 68 00:06:57.570 --> 00:07:04.179 Stephen: and that then extends into what we call feeling or feeling tone. 69 00:07:05.320 --> 00:07:09.069 Stephen: that this body is not just something. 70 00:07:09.380 --> 00:07:12.330 Stephen: There's a set of of neutral facts. 71 00:07:12.380 --> 00:07:20.680 Stephen: It always feels a certain way. Our experience of the world impacts us in such such a way that is agreeable, disagreeable. 72 00:07:20.790 --> 00:07:24.950 Stephen: or neither one or the other. Somewhere along a spectrum 73 00:07:25.130 --> 00:07:26.449 Stephen: between agony 74 00:07:26.820 --> 00:07:29.799 Stephen: and ecstasy. So to be mindful of 75 00:07:30.080 --> 00:07:31.310 Stephen: how we feel. 76 00:07:31.820 --> 00:07:35.860 Stephen: not just of the sensations or the fact of being embodied. 77 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:38.130 Stephen: and that 78 00:07:38.400 --> 00:07:43.550 Stephen: in turn leads us to be aware and conscious of our 79 00:07:43.610 --> 00:07:45.249 Stephen: our state of mind. 80 00:07:45.650 --> 00:07:51.229 Stephen: But again, the word mind that I've I've rendered here, as mind is once again cheetah 81 00:07:52.240 --> 00:08:04.390 Stephen: and cheetah. I would prefer in a way to translate as soul. so to be mindful. not just of your mental states, which sounds a bit analytic. 82 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.409 Stephen: but rather to be deeply aware 83 00:08:08.580 --> 00:08:13.540 Stephen: of the movements within the depths of you. 84 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.129 Stephen: the movements within your heart. 85 00:08:17.210 --> 00:08:27.379 Stephen: And when you look at the way it's presented. It's about recognizing what is rising up and moving you to respond to react. 86 00:08:29.330 --> 00:08:37.690 Stephen: It's not just about mental states in that sense. We need to see this as an embodied. soulful consciousness. 87 00:08:39.200 --> 00:08:47.229 Stephen: and then also to be aware of your ideas and thoughts which are not just, your random ideas and thoughts that pop into your mind. 88 00:08:47.420 --> 00:08:54.159 Stephen: but particularly to pay attention to these clusters of virtue, to be aware of 89 00:08:54.590 --> 00:08:58.420 Stephen: the 5 hindrances, the 7 factors of awakening 90 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:02.760 Stephen: the eightfold path, to to hold in mind, to bear in mind. 91 00:09:03.420 --> 00:09:11.239 Stephen: not to notice, as they happen as you would a feeling or a sensation, but to bear in mind your values 92 00:09:11.660 --> 00:09:17.139 Stephen: to bear in mind the dharma as a teaching. as as a way of life. 93 00:09:20.410 --> 00:09:25.509 Stephen: This is the first step in this process of formation, which then 94 00:09:25.530 --> 00:09:31.350 Stephen: is followed by the making of a resolve. Pardon. 95 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:44.199 Stephen: In other words, we don't just pay attention to what's going on, or what we value, but that serves as the foundation for what we commit ourselves to do in the world. 96 00:09:44.310 --> 00:09:46.400 Stephen: to create the conditions 97 00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:55.559 Stephen: for the good to come about, to create the conditions that will prevent what is destructive and negative 98 00:09:55.970 --> 00:09:57.140 Stephen: from happening 99 00:09:57.430 --> 00:10:00.689 Stephen: both inwardly and outwardly, as we saw 100 00:10:00.870 --> 00:10:03.680 Stephen: already in the practice of application. 101 00:10:04.940 --> 00:10:07.549 Stephen: And those resolves, 102 00:10:07.700 --> 00:10:21.400 Stephen: set the tone or set the direction of our life the broad vision of what it is we aspire to do in the world. but that alone is not enough. It requires 103 00:10:21.460 --> 00:10:23.970 Stephen: the capacity to 104 00:10:24.100 --> 00:10:28.850 Stephen: be creative. So we now have the 4 steps of 105 00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:33.549 Stephen: creativity to be to be clear about what we aspire for 106 00:10:34.580 --> 00:10:39.590 Stephen: to have the courage, the perseverance, to pursue those goals 107 00:10:41.040 --> 00:10:48.169 Stephen: once again to come back into touch with our intuition. Here I've mentioned 108 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.760 Stephen: which again, once again is the word cheetah 109 00:10:51.790 --> 00:10:52.640 Stephen: soul. 110 00:10:52.940 --> 00:10:56.899 Stephen: If you like these heartfelt yearnings. 111 00:10:56.920 --> 00:10:58.620 Stephen: he's heartfelt 112 00:10:58.710 --> 00:11:01.550 Stephen: sense of being alive 113 00:11:01.930 --> 00:11:03.949 Stephen: and tapping into that 114 00:11:05.110 --> 00:11:12.340 Stephen: intuitive resource as a way to to come up with new ideas, new possibilities 115 00:11:12.540 --> 00:11:17.000 Stephen: that we then try out through experimentation 116 00:11:17.430 --> 00:11:18.720 the fourth step. 117 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:28.679 Stephen: And now we move into the second of these 4 tasks which, as a path. 118 00:11:30.280 --> 00:11:32.639 Stephen: is called the path of unification. 119 00:11:33.570 --> 00:11:38.649 Stephen: in which we recognize that 120 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:50.859 Stephen: the task of letting reactivity be. which is what is primary in this phase of practice requires that we bring our 121 00:11:50.910 --> 00:11:53.359 Stephen: energies, as it were. 122 00:11:54.390 --> 00:11:58.719 Stephen: into unison, into harmony with one another. 123 00:12:00.340 --> 00:12:10.750 Stephen: because, although we have a clearer sense of our existential condition. Through our mindfulness we have resolved ourselves to create certain conditions in our 124 00:12:11.060 --> 00:12:17.149 Stephen: self and in the world in which we've engaged our creativity. To do that. 125 00:12:17.470 --> 00:12:21.329 Stephen: we find that there are many patterns of our 126 00:12:21.350 --> 00:12:23.780 Stephen: in a life patents 127 00:12:24.050 --> 00:12:28.740 Stephen: in the structures of our world that hinder and impede 128 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:31.010 Stephen: those longings. 129 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:36.109 Stephen: classically. greed, hatred, delusion. 130 00:12:36.170 --> 00:12:46.769 Stephen: these kind of reactive patterns get in the way they block that process. They keep us stuck frustrated. 131 00:12:46.980 --> 00:12:53.949 Stephen: So the second path that, letting that reactivity be is a path in which 132 00:12:54.030 --> 00:13:01.789 Stephen: we seek to unify and harmonize ourselves in a way that allows us to 133 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:13.610 Stephen: fulfill what we have resolved. and to free up. And this is crucial. our creative energy. our capacity to imagine 134 00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:17.870 Stephen: new ways of doing things of living on earth. 135 00:13:19.090 --> 00:13:28.490 Stephen: And this I would call characterized by a mindfulness that is not so much existential but therapeutic. 136 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:39.439 Stephen: And it's the kind of mindfulness used in this context that's become the mindfulness we find in Mbsr. And Nbct. And elsewhere. It's mindfulness is therapy. 137 00:13:39.970 --> 00:13:43.929 Stephen: And so, although mindfulness in my list is Number 3, 138 00:13:44.230 --> 00:13:47.979 Stephen: in the course of the last few days I've elevated it to Number one. 139 00:13:48.670 --> 00:13:56.349 Stephen: So all of the 4 columns start with mindfulness. Mindfulness, by the way, is the only virtue and skill 140 00:13:56.390 --> 00:14:04.420 Stephen: that occurs in all 4 tasks which again points to its centrality. 141 00:14:05.470 --> 00:14:23.259 Stephen: So therapeutic mindfulness is learning how to heal, as it were, these these patterns of thinking, of feeling, of emoting, of belief and attachment that get in the way of allowing us to flourish. 142 00:14:23.990 --> 00:14:26.990 Stephen: allowing our communities to flourish. 143 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:29.860 Stephen: So in that sense 144 00:14:30.150 --> 00:14:32.309 Stephen: they're called powers 145 00:14:32.570 --> 00:14:36.529 Stephen: or strengths in the traditional language. 146 00:14:38.370 --> 00:14:42.800 Stephen: and there are 5 of them, the 5 Powers, the 5 strengths which the Buddha. 147 00:14:43.210 --> 00:14:50.880 Stephen: when he compares to the 5 strings of a lute or a guitar, a stringed instrument of vener 148 00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:59.759 Stephen: and He talks of how our practice needs to be like a well-tuned musical instrument, the guitar. 149 00:15:00.670 --> 00:15:04.740 Stephen: and he gives us the instance of that. The 5 150 00:15:04.810 --> 00:15:08.890 Stephen: these 5 qualities. So it's about harmonizing. 151 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.360 Stephen: bringing getting ourselves in tune. 152 00:15:12.400 --> 00:15:24.020 Stephen: as it were. through mindfulness in the first instance. which is mindfulness of reactivity as it arises, and letting it be. 153 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:27.690 Stephen: it's courage. 154 00:15:27.860 --> 00:15:31.749 Stephen: Sorry the next one. It's it's confidence or faith. 155 00:15:32.470 --> 00:15:34.730 Stephen: And again, I think we can read that 156 00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:43.890 Stephen: through the whole spectrum from just basic self-confidence. You know, I can do this to faith in a quasi or even 157 00:15:44.670 --> 00:15:46.500 Stephen: completely religious. 158 00:15:46.630 --> 00:15:57.350 Stephen: feel what a recognition of what we're ultimately concerned about in our lives, and having the the trust and the confidence that this is 159 00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.060 Stephen: a way of being 160 00:15:59.250 --> 00:16:06.289 Stephen: that I can follow through. And as Winton was talking about, we can understand this just as well within a 161 00:16:06.770 --> 00:16:09.539 Stephen: secular context, a secular faith 162 00:16:09.850 --> 00:16:13.149 Stephen: to have trust and faith and love. 163 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:16.360 what will break down, what is finite. 164 00:16:16.610 --> 00:16:20.619 Stephen: what will change? What will in a sense fail us 165 00:16:21.310 --> 00:16:26.410 Stephen: to place our faith in that. rather than in something eternal. 166 00:16:27.510 --> 00:16:29.950 Stephen: Courage, appears again 167 00:16:30.370 --> 00:16:36.670 Stephen: collectedness, samadhi. meditation. and then discernment. 168 00:16:37.030 --> 00:16:51.160 Stephen: The capacity to differentiate the capacity to, in a sense, be more probing, acute in our awareness, in our consciousness, often translated as wisdom. 169 00:16:51.520 --> 00:16:52.400 Stephen: Hanya. 170 00:16:53.400 --> 00:17:03.659 Stephen: But Panya here doesn't mean so much wisdom, which is really the result of these practices rather than as the capacity to finally discriminate and judge 171 00:17:04.060 --> 00:17:17.500 Stephen: power of judgment. Really. in this context, to see more clearly what is going on. to be able to analyze, to understand more vividly, with greater clarity because of 172 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:21.270 Stephen: of focus, collectiveness, courage. 173 00:17:21.550 --> 00:17:24.839 Stephen: confidence. and mindfulness. 174 00:17:26.280 --> 00:17:31.299 Stephen: And that second task. this process of unification 175 00:17:31.390 --> 00:17:36.529 Stephen: of harmonisation then provides the condition 176 00:17:36.540 --> 00:17:42.280 Stephen: where we can enter what is called the path of vision. or the path of seeing. 177 00:17:42.550 --> 00:17:48.959 Stephen: in which we see the stopping of reactivity, which is the third task. 178 00:17:50.840 --> 00:17:52.180 Stephen: And here 179 00:17:53.430 --> 00:18:03.879 Stephen: again it starts with mindfulness, but mindfulness. I think we should understand, not so much as an existential mindfulness or a therapeutic mindfulness. 180 00:18:03.930 --> 00:18:13.650 Stephen: but a contemplative mindfulness to be mindful of this non reactive state. 181 00:18:13.950 --> 00:18:15.360 Possibility 182 00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:32.240 Stephen: within us. And again, as I mentioned, I think before. to be aware and mindful of reactivity is already Nirvanic. The mindfulness itself is already not reactive. 183 00:18:32.810 --> 00:18:38.829 Stephen: It's a non-reactive state of mind. So even if our mind is churning with all kinds of 184 00:18:39.530 --> 00:18:44.500 Stephen: difficult emotions and worries, and so on. You can be aware of that. 185 00:18:45.530 --> 00:18:51.629 Stephen: You can be aware in a contemplative way you can be at peace with your own turmoil. 186 00:18:53.230 --> 00:18:57.399 Stephen: That I feel is one of the great gifts of this practice. It 187 00:18:57.540 --> 00:19:02.339 Stephen: it doesn't have. You don't have to get rid of this stuff, in fact, that probably is impossible. 188 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:05.140 Stephen: but you can be at peace with it. 189 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:17.720 Stephen: You can relate to it in a profoundly different way, and the guided meditation I offered a couple of days ago was effectively guiding us through these 7 facets of 190 00:19:18.390 --> 00:19:20.460 Stephen: of being awake. 191 00:19:22.010 --> 00:19:27.070 Stephen: Wakefulness or awakening. so mindfulness. 192 00:19:27.320 --> 00:19:30.439 Stephen: wonder, courage, joy. 193 00:19:30.970 --> 00:19:33.690 Stephen: stillness, collectiveness. 194 00:19:33.760 --> 00:19:35.150 Stephen: equanimacy. 195 00:19:37.590 --> 00:19:38.570 Stephen: and. 196 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:47.959 Stephen: as you may remember, I reversed the process. We started with mindfulness, and then we connected with the non-reactive 197 00:19:48.020 --> 00:19:50.099 Stephen: cushion on which we were sitting. 198 00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:57.870 Stephen: where we found equanimity, and then we rose to collectiveness, stillness, joy in the heart. 199 00:19:58.060 --> 00:20:00.280 Stephen: courage in the throat. 200 00:20:00.410 --> 00:20:03.300 Stephen: speech. and then wonder. 201 00:20:03.810 --> 00:20:06.340 Stephen: The center of our brain. 202 00:20:09.380 --> 00:20:12.770 Stephen: and that is really the contemplative 203 00:20:13.460 --> 00:20:24.029 Stephen: core of Dharma. Practice is what one might consider to be the vertical dimension of the path. the dimension of depth 204 00:20:24.100 --> 00:20:26.760 Stephen: as opposed to the dimension of breath. 205 00:20:27.560 --> 00:20:37.040 Stephen: It's the point at which we drop down and ground ourselves. It's it's the turning point. really. from a life 206 00:20:38.020 --> 00:20:41.909 Stephen: driven to a large degree by habit and reaction. 207 00:20:42.280 --> 00:20:49.949 Stephen: conditioning to a life in which we find a grounding in ourselves from which new possibilities 208 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:51.600 Stephen: can emerge 209 00:20:51.710 --> 00:20:55.170 Stephen: as a path. 210 00:20:56.250 --> 00:21:08.790 Stephen: and that's where we get to where we are on this course a the eightfold par. So the Afol path. therefore. does not lead to 211 00:21:08.890 --> 00:21:10.120 Stephen: Nirvana 212 00:21:11.110 --> 00:21:12.650 non reactivity. 213 00:21:13.270 --> 00:21:24.889 Stephen: It so it it is. It comes from this Nirvanic contemplative space, this vertical dimension of our lives 214 00:21:29.470 --> 00:21:39.169 Stephen: in the Sevastavada tradition, in the, in, the, in the terminology of the 4 Paths. It is the path of cultivation which is exactly how the Buddha described it. 215 00:21:39.290 --> 00:21:45.130 Stephen: In the first discourse. The noble eightfold path is to be cultivated 216 00:21:45.490 --> 00:21:54.390 Stephen: is to be brought into being, and to that extent the mindfulness that that grounds it 217 00:21:55.510 --> 00:22:05.039 Stephen: is ethical. It's an ethical mindfulness. It's an awareness of of what our values are. It's an awareness of our perspective on life. 218 00:22:05.290 --> 00:22:11.839 Stephen: It's an awareness of what we wish to realize for ourselves, for others. 219 00:22:12.310 --> 00:22:17.150 Stephen: It has to do with the kind of world we wish to bring into being. 220 00:22:18.780 --> 00:22:28.520 Stephen: So we've already looked briefly at mindfulness which, as you'll remember in my handout. is far more than just mind-body 221 00:22:28.670 --> 00:22:41.039 Stephen: feelings, and so on, but extends to our awareness of the kind of beings we are in the kind of world we inhabit in so talented. 222 00:22:42.590 --> 00:22:46.710 Stephen: And then we go through collectiveness, which again is the third 223 00:22:47.770 --> 00:22:48.740 Stephen: task. 224 00:22:49.780 --> 00:22:55.819 Stephen: And then we looked at perspective which brings us back in a way to all 4 tasks. 225 00:22:57.060 --> 00:22:59.320 Stephen: Then we looked at imagination. 226 00:22:59.780 --> 00:23:03.579 Stephen: which leads us to the threshold of action. 227 00:23:04.520 --> 00:23:08.529 Stephen: and we then considered application. 228 00:23:08.800 --> 00:23:15.500 Stephen: How we realize these values in the specific context of the world. 229 00:23:15.600 --> 00:23:25.560 Stephen: Starting with our own inner life. this ethics of consciousness, this capacity, we have to change ourselves. 230 00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:33.610 Stephen: to transform our own inner behaviors, to become more conscious of our psychology. 231 00:23:35.790 --> 00:23:37.800 Stephen: and that then leads us to 232 00:23:40.660 --> 00:23:52.290 Stephen: what we do. what we say in the world. We've looked now at survival what we do in order to survive to maintain our existence. 233 00:23:52.470 --> 00:23:57.960 Stephen: and particularly with the idea of of how we can 234 00:23:58.530 --> 00:24:00.370 Stephen: find a way of 235 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:07.970 Stephen: leading a more simple life through an understanding of what really are our fundamental needs 236 00:24:08.530 --> 00:24:11.469 Stephen: as opposed to our non 237 00:24:11.500 --> 00:24:18.540 Stephen: necessary desires and longings. How can we ground ourselves 238 00:24:18.860 --> 00:24:25.850 Stephen: in a way of life that meets our needs, but is not a slave to our desires and our wants? 239 00:24:27.150 --> 00:24:32.389 Stephen: And yesterday we took that further into the idea of work. 240 00:24:33.510 --> 00:24:34.770 Stephen: and how work 241 00:24:34.970 --> 00:24:41.990 Stephen: following Hannah Arendt is all of those things we do to create the kind of 242 00:24:42.550 --> 00:24:45.109 Stephen: civilizations and cultures. 243 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:55.209 Stephen: cities, systems of transport, whatever it might be, healthcare justice, and so on. The the human artifice 244 00:24:55.400 --> 00:25:00.600 Stephen: that we build over generations that withstands the 245 00:25:00.730 --> 00:25:08.089 Stephen: natural empathy! It's not not empathy, entropy of life itself. How things are always 246 00:25:08.450 --> 00:25:15.159 Stephen: in palm. fading away, breaking down civilizations or 247 00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:17.869 Stephen: cultures seek to 248 00:25:17.940 --> 00:25:21.469 Stephen: build something relatively permanent 249 00:25:21.520 --> 00:25:27.339 Stephen: within this world of change. And that's what Iran calls the world, basically. 250 00:25:29.040 --> 00:25:34.389 Stephen: But now today. in conclusion, we reached the eighth 251 00:25:34.650 --> 00:25:36.780 Stephen: of these, 252 00:25:38.500 --> 00:25:40.729 Stephen: we reached the eighth. 253 00:25:42.010 --> 00:25:44.149 Stephen: and although it's the final step 254 00:25:44.690 --> 00:25:49.829 Stephen: in this particular configuration, that's remember something that 255 00:25:50.180 --> 00:25:53.370 Stephen: I've configured, because I feel it to be more 256 00:25:53.840 --> 00:25:58.270 Stephen: in tune with the kind of situation we find ourselves now. 257 00:26:00.110 --> 00:26:06.800 Stephen: but it's no more, but it's just another configuration that may be more or less appropriate. 258 00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:11.370 Stephen: But when we get to voice. 259 00:26:11.630 --> 00:26:20.030 Stephen: we enter into another kind of action. A rent calls it simply action. 260 00:26:20.150 --> 00:26:22.920 Stephen: which she differentiates between 261 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:30.510 Stephen: what we, the the labor that we need to do in order basically just to survive, to have the necessities of life 262 00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:39.270 Stephen: as well as the work we do with our hands and our brains that construct and maintain and develop 263 00:26:39.600 --> 00:26:46.890 Stephen: the different institutions and homes and buildings, and so forth, that constitute the human world. 264 00:26:48.020 --> 00:26:52.329 Stephen: I'll just read what she says in order to be a home 265 00:26:52.340 --> 00:26:56.159 Stephen: for men and women during their life on earth. 266 00:26:56.490 --> 00:27:03.139 Stephen: The human artifice must be a place fit for action and speech. 267 00:27:04.340 --> 00:27:09.829 Stephen: for activities that are not only entirely useless 268 00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:14.220 Stephen: for the necessities of life, labor, survival. 269 00:27:14.310 --> 00:27:17.239 Stephen: but of an entirely different nature 270 00:27:17.390 --> 00:27:22.189 Stephen: from the manifold activities of fabrication 271 00:27:22.580 --> 00:27:28.169 Stephen: by which the world itself. and all things in it are produced. 272 00:27:30.510 --> 00:27:34.749 Stephen: So again, her text is a little bit dense. But the main point 273 00:27:34.850 --> 00:27:40.900 Stephen: is that there's another kind of action, another kind of doing which for her. 274 00:27:41.050 --> 00:27:44.670 Stephen: I think also. the Buddha 275 00:27:44.770 --> 00:27:54.699 Stephen: is about how we give voice, how we speak, how we say, what matters and how we do things that 276 00:27:55.860 --> 00:28:03.170 Stephen: engage us in conversations with other human beings. About how we should live on this earth. 277 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.639 Stephen: how we should live in this world that we have created. 278 00:28:08.250 --> 00:28:14.790 Stephen: How can we best survive on this planet? That's the primary role 279 00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:16.290 Stephen: of a 280 00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:19.940 Stephen: action or hear voice. 281 00:28:21.370 --> 00:28:29.779 Stephen: It's quite different from labor. It's completely different also from all of the work we do to create and sustain the world. 282 00:28:29.910 --> 00:28:32.710 Stephen: It's of another order of activity. 283 00:28:36.780 --> 00:28:41.899 Stephen: So both in the Greek and in the Buddhist traditions 284 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:43.709 Stephen: voice or speech 285 00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:47.850 Stephen: comes as what defines us as human. 286 00:28:48.690 --> 00:28:52.270 Stephen: For Aristotle. the human being was the 287 00:28:52.440 --> 00:29:01.319 Stephen: zoon Logon, Econ, the being who has Logos, the being who thinks and speaks. 288 00:29:01.450 --> 00:29:05.399 Stephen: That's what distinguishes the human from from 289 00:29:05.420 --> 00:29:07.440 Stephen: in Aristotelian terms. 290 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:09.470 Stephen: from the non-human 291 00:29:09.520 --> 00:29:11.150 Stephen: forms of life on earth. 292 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:16.580 Stephen: And we also find a definition that I learned when I was a Tibetan Buddhist monk. 293 00:29:16.690 --> 00:29:20.279 Stephen: Of the human being is defined as mache dung. 294 00:29:20.380 --> 00:29:26.259 Stephen: In Tibetan. Marci means knows how to speak, and dong gore. 295 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:29.289 Stephen: and knows how to understand meanings. 296 00:29:29.830 --> 00:29:33.570 Stephen: the being who speaks and understands meanings. 297 00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:46.029 Stephen: So once in both cases it's speech that defines us. So I think it's even on that basis worth considering. Speech 298 00:29:46.070 --> 00:29:49.880 Stephen: as that which enables us to be fully human. 299 00:29:49.930 --> 00:29:55.749 Stephen: and therefore to present voice as the culmination of the eightfold 300 00:29:55.870 --> 00:29:56.830 Stephen: pass. 301 00:29:58.350 --> 00:30:01.659 Stephen: but we can be fully 302 00:30:01.690 --> 00:30:10.630 Stephen: capable of thinking and speaking and understanding meanings without actually ever finding our own voice. 303 00:30:11.930 --> 00:30:13.230 Stephen: Remember the 304 00:30:13.410 --> 00:30:24.140 Stephen: eightfold path. When you enter the eightfold path, according to the Pali text. you become someone who is independent of others 305 00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:26.220 Stephen: in your practice. 306 00:30:26.530 --> 00:30:36.950 Stephen: Someone who, therefore. is no longer determined in what you do by systems of morality 307 00:30:37.110 --> 00:30:38.220 Stephen: rules 308 00:30:38.840 --> 00:30:52.460 Stephen: is no longer determined by simply following the inco. You know the imprinted voices in your own mind the voices of your political, cultural, and religious 309 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:57.740 Stephen: leaders. For example, your parents, your spouses, your bosses. 310 00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:06.529 Stephen: So again, reactivity is not just about psychological events. It's also about internalized voices 311 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:09.609 Stephen: that pop up. You can't do that. 312 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:13.970 Stephen: You might hear someone say in your mind. 313 00:31:16.540 --> 00:31:23.509 Stephen: and Who's that person? Well, it might be your father. It might be the schoolteacher. It might be the local priest. 314 00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:33.780 Stephen: so it doesn't mean that you suppress or reject these voices. They might be saying something rather important and worthwhile. But you don't have to be somehow. 315 00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:41.880 Stephen: you know, driven and conditioned by them, and somehow unable to break free from their authority. 316 00:31:43.180 --> 00:31:54.820 Stephen: So to the extent to which we live. Our lives, according to the injunctions of others, were not really free. and our lives, therefore, are not really our own. 317 00:31:56.450 --> 00:31:58.579 Stephen: So to own our lives 318 00:31:58.660 --> 00:32:02.719 Stephen: means that we need the courage to speak out. 319 00:32:03.500 --> 00:32:07.300 Stephen: to make statements through words and deeds 320 00:32:07.470 --> 00:32:11.580 in the public space that lies between human beings. 321 00:32:12.650 --> 00:32:15.840 Stephen: The realm of speech is the in-between 322 00:32:16.090 --> 00:32:19.270 Stephen: between you and me. the polis 323 00:32:19.310 --> 00:32:22.429 Stephen: in ancient Greece, Greece, in Athens. 324 00:32:22.550 --> 00:32:25.910 Stephen: where people would meet to discuss how to live 325 00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:33.040 Stephen: in the city. And for Irant. She says that 326 00:32:35.650 --> 00:32:36.350 Stephen: hmm. 327 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.219 Stephen: With word and deed 328 00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:45.060 Stephen: we insert, insert ourselves into the human world. 329 00:32:45.560 --> 00:32:50.279 Stephen: and this insertion, she says, is like a second birth. 330 00:32:52.650 --> 00:32:54.709 Stephen: In other words, we are reborn. 331 00:32:58.150 --> 00:32:59.939 Stephen: Again this idea 332 00:33:01.020 --> 00:33:04.169 Stephen: echoes the idea of the hatching of eggs. 333 00:33:05.230 --> 00:33:08.860 Stephen: these 32 skills and virtues 334 00:33:09.530 --> 00:33:15.250 Stephen: exactly what the Buddha names as that which we have to cultivate 335 00:33:16.150 --> 00:33:30.709 Stephen: bring into being, and to do so in the manner of a hen with her eggs. So the the 4 mindfulness is the 4 resolves, the 4 steps of creativity, the 5 powers, the 7 facets of awakening in the eightfold path 336 00:33:30.830 --> 00:33:35.159 Stephen: are basically each of them like a cluster of eggs. 337 00:33:36.570 --> 00:33:37.270 Stephen: And 338 00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:41.300 Stephen: the egg is a powerful image of 339 00:33:41.990 --> 00:33:42.910 Stephen: birth. 340 00:33:43.250 --> 00:33:46.170 bringing into being a new life. 341 00:33:46.750 --> 00:33:53.190 Stephen: And this gets picked up in Mahayana Buddhism with the idea of the to target a garba 342 00:33:53.500 --> 00:33:55.170 Stephen: to to target a 343 00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:05.850 Stephen: is a word the Buddha uses about himself. But really it's it means something like the one who is just so. The true person 344 00:34:06.490 --> 00:34:13.270 Stephen: we find in Chinese thought very close to this idea, the true person, the the authentic self. 345 00:34:13.850 --> 00:34:17.660 Stephen: and the tatagata garba is the womb 346 00:34:18.250 --> 00:34:19.430 Stephen: or the egg. 347 00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:22.769 Stephen: The word means both in in Sanskrit and Pali. 348 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:28.619 Stephen: that gives birth to an authentic self, a true person. 349 00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:34.360 Stephen: the one who is just so, who's not pretending, who's not somehow 350 00:34:34.530 --> 00:34:37.969 Stephen: dissembling. but is 351 00:34:38.350 --> 00:34:40.649 Stephen: truly their own person. 352 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:49.499 Stephen: I'm going to give you an example. And again, some of you have probably read this in the handout 353 00:34:50.370 --> 00:34:54.630 Stephen: to illustrate what it means to find your voice and become your 354 00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.039 Stephen: become a true person. 355 00:34:58.080 --> 00:34:59.880 Stephen: a person who's no longer 356 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:10.469 Stephen: just working to maintain the necessities of life, to survive, who's no longer just working in order to build a Maintainer. 357 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:15.020 Stephen: you know, an institution or a world in that sense. 358 00:35:15.140 --> 00:35:18.779 Stephen: but a person whose life has moved into speech 359 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:24.500 Stephen: and into action. And this is the example of Rosa Parks. 360 00:35:25.570 --> 00:35:35.960 Stephen: who in December, 1955. In fact, there was an article in the BBC. The other day on that December first, which was the day she did. It 361 00:35:35.980 --> 00:35:44.760 Stephen: is she refused the order of a bus driver to vacate her seat to allow a white passenger to take her. 362 00:35:48.430 --> 00:35:52.029 Stephen: and this simple act of disobedience 363 00:35:52.190 --> 00:35:57.819 Stephen: became a key point in the Civil rights movement in the United States. 364 00:35:58.570 --> 00:36:00.059 Stephen: But Rosa Parks 365 00:36:00.180 --> 00:36:07.520 Stephen: didn't. She didn't. So all she said was, I don't think I should stand up. 366 00:36:08.930 --> 00:36:12.290 Stephen: And she didn't do anything. She just sat there. 367 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:19.350 Stephen: And this is the power of of this kind of action 368 00:36:21.740 --> 00:36:25.490 Stephen: in a way, although she said very little, she found her voice. 369 00:36:26.270 --> 00:36:32.879 Stephen: and although she did very little, she acted in a way that had massive 370 00:36:33.140 --> 00:36:34.560 Stephen: repercussions. 371 00:36:35.790 --> 00:36:37.800 Stephen: she was arrested 372 00:36:38.080 --> 00:36:41.600 Stephen: necessarily because she broke the law in Alabama. 373 00:36:41.990 --> 00:36:49.979 Stephen: And he wasn't the first black person to do that. Others had also refused to move and got arrested and then fined. 374 00:36:50.050 --> 00:36:54.010 Stephen: But for some reason her act occurred at the 375 00:36:54.830 --> 00:36:56.309 Stephen: just the right moment. 376 00:36:57.250 --> 00:37:01.180 Stephen: It was the moment when the Civil rights movement was really building up. 377 00:37:01.460 --> 00:37:08.319 Stephen: you know, becoming a powerful force, and it was the moment when a young minister called Martin Luther King 378 00:37:08.520 --> 00:37:10.579 Stephen: was rising to prominence. 379 00:37:11.080 --> 00:37:19.200 Stephen: and this triggered what became known as the the Mont, the Montgomery Bus. By but Bus Boycott. 380 00:37:19.520 --> 00:37:24.539 Stephen: The black people of Montgomery, refused to use the buses. 381 00:37:24.550 --> 00:37:28.009 Stephen: They walked for miles to their work instead. 382 00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.099 Stephen: and that became a cause celebrant 383 00:37:32.430 --> 00:37:34.790 Stephen: in the United States, and 384 00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:37.679 Stephen: brought Martin Luther King to prominence. 385 00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:40.700 Stephen: led to. 386 00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:45.320 Stephen: you know, the abandoning of those Jim Crow laws in the South. 387 00:37:46.170 --> 00:37:50.510 Stephen: and this was done because one woman said. 388 00:37:50.520 --> 00:37:54.610 Stephen: I don't think I should stand up. Just sat there 389 00:37:55.790 --> 00:38:00.610 Stephen: now. Of course there are echoes of this with civil disobedience. In other 390 00:38:00.750 --> 00:38:06.160 Stephen: context, one thinks obviously a Gandhi in India and his, you know. 391 00:38:06.180 --> 00:38:10.789 Stephen: refusal to eat until the fighting between Muslims and 392 00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:14.430 Stephen: Hindus after partition came to a stop. 393 00:38:15.570 --> 00:38:23.819 Stephen: And I think it's also something we can learn from in how we deal with our current. 394 00:38:24.580 --> 00:38:26.030 Crisis of 395 00:38:26.100 --> 00:38:34.540 Stephen: climate change. social inequality, and so on. That doesn't mean we just. you know, we we don't get up from sitting on a bus seat. 396 00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:40.659 Stephen: but we need our imagination to come up with what would be the equivalent 397 00:38:40.890 --> 00:38:46.600 Stephen: in this situation? Do we have the imagination to to do that? 398 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:56.419 Stephen: Some of these extinction rebellion activities have been groups of people sitting meditating on Westminster Bridge in London and blocking the traffic 399 00:38:57.620 --> 00:39:02.700 Stephen: the oil anti oil groups in England, too, just sat down on the motorways. 400 00:39:08.860 --> 00:39:21.730 Stephen: So Rosa Parks, largely silent act was a statement of principle for which she was prepared to suffer. It didn't make her life any easier. She was fired from a job. She had to leave Montgomery 401 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:23.349 Stephen: to live elsewhere. 402 00:39:24.310 --> 00:39:33.620 Stephen: but what she said afterwards, in recollecting that moment, she said. I felt a determination cover my body 403 00:39:33.950 --> 00:39:37.430 Stephen: like a quilt on a winter's night. 404 00:39:39.630 --> 00:39:45.640 Stephen: It's a beautiful way of framing. you know her courage essentially. 405 00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:58.830 Stephen: and of course we find greater Tunburg in our time. you know, refusing to go to school. They're not doing anything. just stopping and not going to school. 406 00:40:00.540 --> 00:40:05.719 Stephen: so that again, I think, is an example of what might inspire us to 407 00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:06.780 stop 408 00:40:07.820 --> 00:40:09.819 Stephen: doing something. Stop 409 00:40:11.120 --> 00:40:12.210 Stephen: investing in. 410 00:40:12.220 --> 00:40:13.540 Stephen: you know. 411 00:40:14.160 --> 00:40:18.549 Stephen: in in companies that support fossil fuels, whatever it might be. 412 00:40:24.370 --> 00:40:30.899 Stephen: So by taking this kind of stand. these these people, these women, in this case. 413 00:40:31.600 --> 00:40:36.070 Stephen: enabled their lives to be told as stories 414 00:40:36.250 --> 00:40:44.959 Stephen: they revealed who they were. Their lives became a kind of praxis 415 00:40:46.210 --> 00:40:54.320 Stephen: there were. Their activities were no longer reducible to what they did in terms of their labor or their work. 416 00:40:54.660 --> 00:40:58.020 Stephen: but they're elements. Their actions became 417 00:40:58.170 --> 00:41:05.389 Stephen: elements of a biography against which others could consciously or unconsciously measure 418 00:41:05.980 --> 00:41:07.330 Stephen: themselves. 419 00:41:09.380 --> 00:41:12.200 Stephen: So to find your voice, in a way. 420 00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:13.860 Stephen: might be called 421 00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:18.380 Stephen: to find how to become a practicing human. 422 00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:22.509 Stephen: Your life itself, your your human being. 423 00:41:23.020 --> 00:41:31.060 Stephen: becomes a practice, and I think we use this word. This is a phrase from a German philosopher whose name I momentarily forgot. 424 00:41:31.520 --> 00:41:33.000 Stephen: But 425 00:41:34.500 --> 00:41:44.500 Stephen: I think this is, you know, we use the word practice dharma practice. But in a sense that practice is about learning how to make our lives a practice, our life 426 00:41:45.510 --> 00:41:46.420 practice 427 00:41:47.630 --> 00:41:52.150 Stephen: so that it becomes an inspiration. It can be read as a story 428 00:41:52.330 --> 00:41:58.110 Stephen: that may go on to be an example to others long after you're gone. 429 00:41:58.220 --> 00:42:03.730 Stephen: Hannah Arendt herself was an activist in her way. 430 00:42:03.830 --> 00:42:07.490 Stephen: constantly working on issues of injustice. 431 00:42:07.530 --> 00:42:11.750 Stephen: and so forth, and her life stands out to me 432 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:17.169 Stephen: as a very powerful a story that continues to 433 00:42:17.910 --> 00:42:25.139 Stephen: in a way, give a voice to those who don't have a voice who have not yet found their voice. 434 00:42:27.520 --> 00:42:29.389 Stephen: but finding a voice. 435 00:42:30.100 --> 00:42:38.660 Stephen: is not just about speaking. It's not about saying something or doing something. It's also about 436 00:42:39.300 --> 00:42:40.919 Stephen: learning how to listen. 437 00:42:41.970 --> 00:42:47.709 Stephen: learning how to hear others. It's not just a one-way process. 438 00:42:48.130 --> 00:42:50.960 Stephen: I think there's just as much 439 00:42:51.290 --> 00:42:53.400 Stephen: a necessity 440 00:42:53.590 --> 00:42:58.460 Stephen: for us to be able to open our ears and not just literally 441 00:42:58.630 --> 00:43:03.199 Stephen: to hear more clearly the sound waves that impact us. 442 00:43:03.310 --> 00:43:07.810 Stephen: but to somehow be more open to hear 443 00:43:07.980 --> 00:43:09.939 Stephen: the cries of the war. 444 00:43:10.940 --> 00:43:22.929 Stephen: The Bodhisattva. Avalokiteshvara, the Bodhisattva of compassion in Chinese is called Guanyin. which means the one who hears the sound. 445 00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:31.090 Stephen: In other words, it's a hearing of the heart. 446 00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:32.630 Stephen: not a hearing 447 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:38.860 Stephen: of the ears. It's to be sensitive to be open to 448 00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:44.419 Stephen: the you know, the suffering of the world of which we are a part. 449 00:43:45.820 --> 00:43:50.489 Stephen: The ethical philosopher, Emmanuel Levinas. 450 00:43:50.820 --> 00:43:54.050 Stephen: another student of Heidegger, like I rent 451 00:43:54.310 --> 00:43:58.990 Stephen: has, you know, is well known for his 452 00:43:59.380 --> 00:44:01.530 Stephen: idea that ethics 453 00:44:02.110 --> 00:44:06.170 Stephen: has its beginnings in our capacity 454 00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:10.560 Stephen: to hear the injunction, the silent injunction 455 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.790 Stephen: that is present in the face 456 00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:15.980 Stephen: of the other. 457 00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:29.659 Stephen: specifically other persons. humans. But of course, we can also see this in other forms of life. Animal life. My cat, for example. and for loving us 458 00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:36.260 Stephen: before any words are spoken. The face, when you look another person in the eyes. 459 00:44:36.630 --> 00:44:39.460 Stephen: whether it's a friend or a stranger. 460 00:44:39.500 --> 00:44:44.429 Stephen: or even someone you don't like. There is the injunction. 461 00:44:45.370 --> 00:44:51.289 Stephen: the pleading, almost do not kill me. Do not hurt me. 462 00:44:53.150 --> 00:44:58.989 Stephen: and to to sensitize oneself to this call. as he calls it. 463 00:44:59.160 --> 00:45:01.550 Stephen: is 464 00:45:02.270 --> 00:45:08.780 Stephen: is the very foundation of awakening that ethical responsiveness 465 00:45:09.120 --> 00:45:21.570 Stephen: to heed that call nowadays. you know, we might actually again. We. you know, can we hear the call of the of the environment. of the ecosystem 466 00:45:21.590 --> 00:45:22.939 Stephen: of the planet? 467 00:45:24.410 --> 00:45:35.069 Stephen: Metaphorically. when you see and witness destruction and depredation and pollution. There's something being despoiled. 468 00:45:36.420 --> 00:45:37.440 Stephen: the very 469 00:45:38.040 --> 00:45:41.310 Stephen: environment that enables us to live. 470 00:45:41.830 --> 00:45:45.390 Stephen: and is from hearing this call that 471 00:45:46.720 --> 00:45:49.120 Stephen: one can be moved to respond. 472 00:45:50.650 --> 00:45:58.859 Stephen: So the kind of aware, you know, what is driving hopefully, the response to the climate crisis is also 473 00:45:59.370 --> 00:46:03.000 Stephen: a deeper sensibility to to hear 474 00:46:03.700 --> 00:46:05.070 Stephen: what's going on. 475 00:46:05.260 --> 00:46:11.549 Stephen: and that requires, I do feel, a certain level of contemplative depth. 476 00:46:11.930 --> 00:46:14.110 Stephen: and this, I feel, is what the dharma 477 00:46:14.720 --> 00:46:17.550 Stephen: can bring to this whole movement. 478 00:46:17.680 --> 00:46:19.210 Stephen: But, in fact, it is 479 00:46:19.630 --> 00:46:29.560 Stephen: many of the people involved in it. Ex extinction, rebellion, for example, are Buddhists. secular Buddhists, some of them, perhaps. 480 00:46:29.870 --> 00:46:32.189 Stephen: but nonetheless, those who have 481 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:34.959 Stephen: in a way come to this movement 482 00:46:35.180 --> 00:46:39.920 Stephen: out of their contemplative experiences. 483 00:46:43.460 --> 00:46:46.240 Stephen: Another dimension of 484 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:49.000 Stephen: finding your own voice 485 00:46:50.410 --> 00:46:56.359 Stephen: is a through the making and understanding of art. 486 00:46:59.960 --> 00:47:04.539 Stephen: so to become a writer. For example. as in my case. 487 00:47:06.860 --> 00:47:12.949 Stephen: in order to to find your own voice, you need to differentiate what you're saying 488 00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:18.549 Stephen: from the voices of those other writers and speakers that you admire. 489 00:47:19.340 --> 00:47:24.000 Stephen: and a lot of art, whether it's visual art or music 490 00:47:24.220 --> 00:47:27.870 Stephen: or writing. When you embark on that 491 00:47:28.240 --> 00:47:32.290 Stephen: process. Initially, you find what you're doing is 492 00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:35.980 Stephen: kind of version of what you admire 493 00:47:36.110 --> 00:47:41.729 Stephen: in other people's work. It's derivative in that sense. 494 00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:54.549 Stephen: Harold Bloom, the American pretty. Talked about the anxiety of influence. how, when you make a sculpture, or write a piece of music, or write a poem. 495 00:47:54.660 --> 00:48:01.149 Stephen: the worry that what you're doing is basically doing a sort of imitation, or a copy of 496 00:48:01.390 --> 00:48:07.689 Stephen: your favourite poet or artist, or whatever. And that's a phrase phase you inevitably have to go through. 497 00:48:08.270 --> 00:48:16.550 Stephen: Because you're part of a tradition. You'll never escape that. And my own struggle to be a writer. 498 00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:27.110 Stephen: and to some extent an artist has been to has been to work through those inspirations, you know, valuing them and acknowledging them, but mainly 499 00:48:27.220 --> 00:48:28.910 Stephen: acknowledging them 500 00:48:29.090 --> 00:48:33.600 Stephen: as exemplars of people who found their own voice. 501 00:48:33.770 --> 00:48:36.219 Stephen: So in some sense you have to leave them behind. 502 00:48:37.910 --> 00:48:42.740 Stephen: And that's a huge challenge. It's not easy. You can't do it by any kind of 503 00:48:43.100 --> 00:48:45.060 Stephen: technical procedure. 504 00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:49.330 Stephen: and 505 00:48:51.650 --> 00:48:57.930 Stephen: it's only when a piece of writing or a piece of art has broken free 506 00:48:58.240 --> 00:49:02.379 Stephen: from the influences that gave rise to it. 507 00:49:02.790 --> 00:49:07.459 Stephen: as well, as I think, also the intentions of the artist who made it. 508 00:49:08.080 --> 00:49:11.279 Stephen: Does that work of art 509 00:49:11.670 --> 00:49:19.940 Stephen: have the capacity to speak to generations of human beings long after the artist has been forgotten. 510 00:49:21.050 --> 00:49:26.280 Stephen: I think of again of the paintings at of Lascale and some of the ancient cave. 511 00:49:26.430 --> 00:49:36.030 Stephen: you know, cliff paintings of the aboriginal peoples, the native Americans, and so on. These works still speak. They're still 512 00:49:36.090 --> 00:49:38.029 Stephen: embodying a voice 513 00:49:38.140 --> 00:49:44.330 Stephen: from the past that still addresses and moves us. Today. 514 00:49:45.950 --> 00:49:53.750 Stephen: So in many ways, although works of art are fabricated by human hands, just as bicycles and computers. 515 00:49:54.380 --> 00:50:06.689 Stephen: the artwork transcends the the the mere utility of objects. Art, in a way, is work at play. 516 00:50:07.110 --> 00:50:12.689 Stephen: Art works are basically useless. And you can't do anything with a painting 517 00:50:13.130 --> 00:50:20.500 Stephen: like you can with a bicycle or a computer. It has no purpose in that sense. 518 00:50:20.550 --> 00:50:33.440 Stephen: and yet we value it. And in fact, we value probably in all human cultures. works of art even though they're useless. they serve no purpose 519 00:50:34.040 --> 00:50:41.729 Stephen: that their sole justification is themselves. They simply invite 520 00:50:42.110 --> 00:50:44.790 Stephen: contemplation. reflection 521 00:50:53.730 --> 00:50:57.229 Stephen: that, of course, is true with with visual arts. 522 00:50:58.270 --> 00:51:02.000 Stephen: with sculpture, with literature, and so on. 523 00:51:02.160 --> 00:51:13.180 Stephen: But there are other arts that don't have that kind of poems. and particularly these would be the performing arts. music. dance. 524 00:51:13.450 --> 00:51:14.470 Stephen: theatre. 525 00:51:15.530 --> 00:51:18.439 Stephen: and, unlike books and paintings. 526 00:51:19.590 --> 00:51:23.799 Stephen: all that survive of them physically are are scripts and scores. 527 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:26.350 Stephen: and each 528 00:51:26.580 --> 00:51:30.150 Stephen: time they're performed they are interpreted anew. 529 00:51:30.970 --> 00:51:35.969 Stephen: and it's for this reason that there is a fluidity. 530 00:51:36.580 --> 00:51:41.789 Stephen: that allows endless variations in interpretation. 531 00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:47.100 Stephen: That vanishes as soon as that particular performance is over. 532 00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:57.190 Stephen: Cinema actually is a kind of in between the 2. It's got relative permanence. It's not like a theatre piece. It's fixed. 533 00:51:59.950 --> 00:52:00.980 Stephen: and 534 00:52:02.770 --> 00:52:04.690 Stephen: it's perhaps for this reason 535 00:52:05.690 --> 00:52:08.139 Stephen: that in a drama. 536 00:52:08.190 --> 00:52:11.539 Stephen: in a play, in the performance of a piece of music 537 00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:17.689 Stephen: you're somehow shown a story. 538 00:52:18.010 --> 00:52:19.810 Stephen: particularly in theatre 539 00:52:21.140 --> 00:52:26.520 Stephen: about people who have lived imaginary people or 540 00:52:26.580 --> 00:52:33.450 Stephen: historical figures. and this somehow stands out as 541 00:52:33.580 --> 00:52:39.720 Stephen: a performance that in can come to mirror 542 00:52:39.740 --> 00:52:47.770 Stephen: and serve an example, for our own performance. I think these Greek plays that 543 00:52:49.230 --> 00:52:53.970 Stephen: Winton was speaking about are not only showing the audience 544 00:52:54.150 --> 00:52:57.340 Stephen: a story about Oedipus, for example. 545 00:52:57.680 --> 00:53:03.550 Stephen: from which they can learn something profound about the human condition. But they're also somehow 546 00:53:03.720 --> 00:53:07.019 Stephen: pointing to the fact that our own life 547 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:13.009 Stephen: is a performance or can be a performance on the stage of the world. 548 00:53:13.160 --> 00:53:15.590 Stephen: the stage of the city, the community 549 00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:21.500 Stephen: that what we do, what we say, how we present ourselves, how we are 550 00:53:21.580 --> 00:53:22.909 Stephen: in a show 551 00:53:23.650 --> 00:53:27.569 Stephen: who we are. We are actually performing. 552 00:53:28.140 --> 00:53:34.750 Stephen: We're being seen, we're being heard. And so our practice of finding our voice. 553 00:53:35.190 --> 00:53:42.099 Stephen: It's not just about what we say in words. It's what we say through how we appear in the world. 554 00:53:42.550 --> 00:53:51.759 Stephen: And it's at this point that you can understand how voice and action and performance, all kind of come down to the same thing. 555 00:53:53.600 --> 00:53:56.389 Stephen: For Hannah Arendt 556 00:53:57.770 --> 00:54:02.750 Stephen: Theatre is the political art par excellence. 557 00:54:04.170 --> 00:54:05.719 Stephen: but it's in theatre 558 00:54:06.040 --> 00:54:11.000 Stephen: that the political sphere of life is transposed into art. 559 00:54:13.380 --> 00:54:23.979 Stephen: and once your voice, and once your life becomes a practice, you again exit effectively, are exhibiting your own story, and however humble or modest that might be. 560 00:54:24.620 --> 00:54:29.760 Stephen: one shouldn't get grandiose ideas about being a performer on the stage of the world 561 00:54:30.410 --> 00:54:32.530 like some famous person. 562 00:54:32.670 --> 00:54:38.309 Stephen: But even in the most humble and intimate settings. 563 00:54:38.630 --> 00:54:40.500 Stephen: to recognize that 564 00:54:40.540 --> 00:54:46.470 Stephen: you are there for someone who is showing what you value 565 00:54:46.520 --> 00:54:53.399 Stephen: most deeply, and you are also aware in how you fail to do that. how you blow it. 566 00:54:53.510 --> 00:54:57.060 how you screw up. how you make a fool of yourself. 567 00:54:59.560 --> 00:55:03.509 Stephen: So I think, culminating this eightfold path. In this way 568 00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:09.880 Stephen: in a sense. recognizes how 569 00:55:10.520 --> 00:55:18.450 Stephen: our live. in a sense, can become a political act in a very small scale. or in a very 570 00:55:19.490 --> 00:55:20.760 Stephen: large scale. 571 00:55:23.210 --> 00:55:27.730 Stephen: The the same processes I feel are going on 572 00:55:29.730 --> 00:55:34.600 Stephen: because you strive, as it were, to emulate through your words and your deeds 573 00:55:34.680 --> 00:55:38.400 Stephen: the kind of person you aspire to be. 574 00:55:38.930 --> 00:55:46.299 Stephen: You want to be the best possible version of yourself when you're engaging with others. 575 00:55:47.670 --> 00:56:00.079 Stephen: particularly, you know, in so in all social, so in all social situations, and you also strive through your words and your deeds to participate in building the kind of world 576 00:56:00.120 --> 00:56:03.260 Stephen: you long for all beings to inhabit. 577 00:56:04.530 --> 00:56:14.220 Stephen: It's not just about personal virtues, but it's also through your example and through what you value and through what you support in your activities. 578 00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:16.530 Stephen: You're also suggesting 579 00:56:16.580 --> 00:56:17.979 Stephen: a kind of world 580 00:56:19.530 --> 00:56:21.850 can think that through in different ways. 581 00:56:22.250 --> 00:56:27.409 Stephen: But that, I think, is again taking charge of your life. 582 00:56:27.750 --> 00:56:28.580 Stephen: And 583 00:56:29.180 --> 00:56:34.899 Stephen: you know, exhibiting yourself in the world. or, as we've been saying 584 00:56:35.060 --> 00:56:37.769 Stephen: already. this is how 585 00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:41.560 Stephen: you become a good ancestor. 586 00:56:45.040 --> 00:56:50.520 Stephen: so I'll stop here. We'll have a 5 min. Break and come back 587 00:56:51.550 --> 00:56:56.090 Stephen: at about 8 min or 7 min before the hours. 588 00:56:56.330 --> 00:57:01.069 Stephen: And remember also at 110'clock at the end of the tea break. 589 00:57:01.160 --> 00:57:07.040 Stephen: We're going to have a meeting in here for those who would like to explore the question of 590 00:57:07.180 --> 00:57:08.380 Stephen: Sangha. 591 00:57:10.210 --> 00:57:15.540 Stephen: again, we do have to finish fairly punctually, because 592 00:57:15.790 --> 00:57:17.769 Stephen: there's another meeting here at 11. 593 00:57:19.660 --> 00:57:25.180 Stephen: So who would like to respond? Go on 594 00:57:27.980 --> 00:57:29.290 Stephen: her microphone. 595 00:57:50.060 --> 00:57:59.810 Stephen: Everything that we've been talking about through the week. and there's something I would invite your reflection on if you wish, and have something to say. You talk about 596 00:58:01.820 --> 00:58:08.560 Stephen: becoming the person that we want to be. But there's also becoming the person that we are. 597 00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:10.460 Stephen: and 598 00:58:10.670 --> 00:58:22.630 Stephen: they're subtly interrelated and subtly different, and can get in the way of each other. And the thing that exemplifies it for me is the story in the the books, then in the art of archery. 599 00:58:22.740 --> 00:58:34.079 Stephen: Eugen Herigal, who's a Swiss philosopher living in Japan in the 1930 S. Studies Japanese archery with a great master, and he cannot pull the bow because it is too difficult 600 00:58:34.330 --> 00:58:56.010 Stephen: and he tries and he tries, and he tries, and one day he goes home and he does it in front of the mirror, and he says, I see what I need to do. He adjusts what he does, goes back the next day and shows the master who bows and says end of lesson, and he assumes it's because he succeeded he gets a little note saying, Don't come back and see me again. 601 00:58:56.280 --> 00:58:57.909 Stephen: because you cheated. 602 00:59:00.250 --> 00:59:07.160 Stephen: and there's something about having taken the external route rather than the internal route 603 00:59:07.340 --> 00:59:09.069 Stephen: to discover 604 00:59:09.150 --> 00:59:18.330 Stephen: how it is that he drew his bow. Not how one draws one's bow, and I wonder if you've got any comment about the interplay between 605 00:59:18.520 --> 00:59:26.350 Stephen: discovering who you are and finding your own voice and discovering the person and becoming the person you want to be. 606 00:59:28.210 --> 00:59:29.960 Stephen: Well. 607 00:59:32.930 --> 00:59:40.060 Stephen: there's a text I was going to look at by Nagarjuna that in touches on this point. 608 00:59:41.320 --> 00:59:44.349 Stephen: nagarja says 609 00:59:44.850 --> 00:59:57.219 Stephen: If the self, if if I were my 5 aggregates, my body and mine, then I would come and go like them. He says, I would be as as ephemeral and transient as they are. 610 00:59:58.110 --> 01:00:14.050 Stephen: the implication being that I'm not as ephemeral and transient as they are. But Buddhists are so committed to the dogma of impermanence that they insist that the self must be in permanent. But the Guardian is saying, actually. 611 01:00:14.330 --> 01:00:16.320 Stephen: the self is something constant. 612 01:00:16.590 --> 01:00:22.559 Stephen: The self doesn't come and go. The sense I have of being me, Stephen 613 01:00:22.780 --> 01:00:29.670 Stephen: is. I'm completely convinced that the little boy who used to play with his train set 614 01:00:30.340 --> 01:00:38.630 Stephen: 60 years ago exactly the same person who's speaking to you now. and I don't think that's a I don't think that's a complete fiction, and it's true. 615 01:00:39.260 --> 01:00:41.610 Stephen: from my point of view, at least, it may be 616 01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:48.889 Stephen: epistemologically incorrect that that's not the point. In other words, there is a sense we have of 617 01:00:49.040 --> 01:00:54.459 Stephen: who we are. That remains pretty much constant. 618 01:00:54.840 --> 01:01:00.670 Stephen: And so when you say, as we've been saying, to aspire to become the person you 619 01:01:01.230 --> 01:01:02.730 Stephen: want to be. 620 01:01:02.830 --> 01:01:06.209 Stephen: you'll always be the person you are 621 01:01:06.680 --> 01:01:12.500 Stephen: in that sense you could never get out of that. You're not going to go, and it's not suddenly going to become another person like 622 01:01:12.520 --> 01:01:14.650 Stephen: Peter or Winter. 623 01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:17.080 Stephen: You'll always be here. 624 01:01:17.330 --> 01:01:21.410 Stephen: And so there's there's a kind of paradox 625 01:01:22.550 --> 01:01:23.800 Stephen: involved here. 626 01:01:24.280 --> 01:01:27.270 Stephen: about 627 01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:35.520 Stephen: becoming the aspiring to be the person you want to be, while also that always being you. 628 01:01:35.700 --> 01:01:45.630 Stephen: And so it's not so much that the person that changes. But it's what the person says and does that changes what we have control over. 629 01:01:46.070 --> 01:01:52.199 Stephen: Are the words that come out of our mouth, the actions that 630 01:01:52.590 --> 01:02:00.280 Stephen: expressed by our body. the things that we do, the ways we impact other people. So in some ways 631 01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:05.199 Stephen: it's still the same you that is doing all of those things. 632 01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:12.779 Stephen: You're not becoming another person. But you are exemplifying, or let's say you are optimizing. 633 01:02:14.300 --> 01:02:16.000 Stephen: manifesting 634 01:02:16.070 --> 01:02:22.959 Stephen: those qualities that you've always, perhaps at some level, sought to realize in your life. 635 01:02:23.980 --> 01:02:25.620 Stephen: if if I may, I 636 01:02:25.790 --> 01:02:42.310 Stephen: meant more that there is a task of discovering who you are, and there is a task of discovering. Oh, I see, inspiring what you aspire to, and the person may find themselves in a new position or situation. We say she's finally discovered herself. 637 01:02:42.610 --> 01:02:48.839 Stephen: She moves in a different way. She relates in a different way to look in her eyes is different. 638 01:02:49.330 --> 01:02:55.750 Stephen: Yeah, well, that would be in a way, I think you know, finding yourself find becoming 639 01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:07.080 Stephen: the person you are. That's no longer in, as it were, clouded and hidden by all of the voices that are coming from somewhere else. You've broken free in a way 640 01:03:07.120 --> 01:03:10.239 Stephen: from what has obscured 641 01:03:11.020 --> 01:03:19.089 Stephen: your own unique potential, as it were, because of your being in thrall to the authorities and powers that 642 01:03:19.180 --> 01:03:22.099 Stephen: have governed your life up to that point. 643 01:03:22.330 --> 01:03:26.510 Stephen: So that is that, yeah, I agree. I think that is a moment at which you 644 01:03:26.750 --> 01:03:32.990 Stephen: find yourself in a way. But I do find all of this language around self, incredibly slippery. 645 01:03:34.330 --> 01:03:41.699 Stephen: and paradoxical in many ways. But yeah, I agree with you. I think that is certainly a perfectly 646 01:03:42.230 --> 01:03:44.169 Stephen: adequate way of expressing that 647 01:03:45.930 --> 01:03:49.789 Stephen: we've got Lena online, followed by Die, and then Bernard 648 01:03:50.950 --> 01:03:52.340 Stephen: Lena! Hi! 649 01:03:52.790 --> 01:03:54.320 Lena: Hi, Steven! 650 01:03:54.720 --> 01:04:02.849 Lena: And thank you for this week. So I would like to expand a bit on greater 2 Berg. 651 01:04:03.600 --> 01:04:17.349 Lena: because I think her story is such an inspiring example and almost an embodiment of the talks and the work we have done this week 652 01:04:17.390 --> 01:04:24.569 Lena: on ourselves. How she found her voice because, 653 01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:34.050 Lena: At 13, when she was around 13, she was severely depressed about the climate overwhelmed 654 01:04:34.540 --> 01:04:36.210 Lena: and 655 01:04:36.250 --> 01:04:41.480 Lena: She was bullied at school, and she she became mute. 656 01:04:41.830 --> 01:04:43.879 Lena: She didn't talk at all. 657 01:04:43.920 --> 01:04:51.200 Lena: She virtually only talked to her parents, her sister and one teacher at school. 658 01:04:52.680 --> 01:04:56.319 Lena: And I'm just thinking that it is. 659 01:04:56.600 --> 01:05:03.770 Lena: and easy to to sort of O also the 660 01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:16.810 Lena: diminish and the impact of the young people, in a sense, just because they are are young, whereas I think that that is the very point of her impact. 661 01:05:16.850 --> 01:05:28.149 Lena: And I see her almost like my T. Check as well. We can learn from her, I think, just as much as our past heroes. They're important, but even 662 01:05:28.500 --> 01:05:35.920 Lena: a young person to day is very important. From sitting alone in front of the Swedish Parliament 663 01:05:35.920 --> 01:05:59.910 Lena: in 2,018 I happened to be there, so I walked past her on my way into the city, and I saw her sitting there as a lone figure, and she almost looked like. Ii thought, what is she doing? What is this girl doing? Is she begging? So I went up to her and I asked, You know, I asked, that. What are you doing? And are you okay? 664 01:06:00.380 --> 01:06:03.130 Lena: And she said, I'm I'm 665 01:06:03.420 --> 01:06:07.239 Lena: strike. I'm on a school strike for the climate. 666 01:06:07.620 --> 01:06:17.039 Lena: And I said something in name, probably like that very good, and continued on my way. When I came back 667 01:06:17.150 --> 01:06:20.870 a couple of hours later, after having been in the city. 668 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:28.259 Lena: I saw her still sitting there, but now she had a few more people, only about a handful 669 01:06:29.180 --> 01:06:30.890 Lena: and 670 01:06:32.670 --> 01:06:40.079 Lena: IA couple of weeks later I came back to Australia, and then she was in the papers. 671 01:06:41.140 --> 01:06:43.959 Lena: Even here in Australia. 672 01:06:44.140 --> 01:06:47.700 Lena: And now, 5 years later. 673 01:06:47.710 --> 01:06:55.050 Lena: I have read that she has about 5 million followers, and the majority of them are under 25 years 674 01:06:57.010 --> 01:07:14.759 Lena: and she's now written, or or she hasn't written herself, which collected. It's a book called The Climate Book, and I thought maybe people might be interested in looking at that. It has been criticized for being anti capitalist. 675 01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:18.020 Lena: But she 676 01:07:18.310 --> 01:07:33.040 Lena: II would just think, is that the way she found her voice? Because then she said, and of course the the other thing. Why, I thought about it, Steven, was because you mentioned Rosa Parks, which she says was her inspiration. 677 01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:40.750 Lena: and that's why she, you know. started her own 678 01:07:40.850 --> 01:07:43.299 Lena: strike. And 679 01:07:44.190 --> 01:07:49.470 Lena: So she's been doing it for 5 years now, but she's finished school now, so she's 20. 680 01:07:49.720 --> 01:08:07.790 Lena: That's when she was interviewed at the I listened just the other day on an interview, and that was done on the baby BBC. If somebody is interested to listen to that by somebody called Amal Rajan. 681 01:08:08.410 --> 01:08:09.490 Lena: and 682 01:08:09.790 --> 01:08:15.110 Lena: and that was in relation to this climate book, of course, and 683 01:08:15.370 --> 01:08:16.479 Lena: and 684 01:08:16.609 --> 01:08:43.170 Lena: and she's very she was very stern and serious when she was sitting in front of the Swedish Parliament. But at this interview. She's funny. She's giggling. She's laughing, even though she's talking about all this serious things. So she's found her found a bit of joy as well in the midst of it all, and I also thought that I what she said, one quote in that interview is 685 01:08:43.170 --> 01:08:48.399 Lena: like, she said, feeling despair is a privilege, not an option. 686 01:08:49.910 --> 01:08:55.689 Lena: And I thought that was a very good quote. So I just wanted to mention it. 687 01:08:56.060 --> 01:08:58.680 Stephen: Thank you very much, Leona. No, that's wonderful 688 01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:00.100 Stephen: wonderful. Thank you. 689 01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:07.769 Stephen: We've got dye up next. 690 01:09:10.069 --> 01:09:19.399 DiPelletier: Thank you, Stephen, for the week. and all the other teachers as well. My question is going to go back to the climate crisis 691 01:09:19.510 --> 01:09:23.249 DiPelletier: and put it beside our talk about the path. 692 01:09:23.670 --> 01:09:34.960 DiPelletier: and it fits quite well with the voice I don't read as widely or as deeply as a lot of the speakers hear in the audience. And I'm not on 693 01:09:35.010 --> 01:09:36.300 DiPelletier: social media. 694 01:09:36.930 --> 01:09:45.740 DiPelletier: but the thing that I am hearing least about that is of an interest to me, and everything to do with all the climate crisis, 695 01:09:45.950 --> 01:09:59.910 DiPelletier: refugees of the future, etc. Is the population explosion. It's it's not an explosion implies something very quick. whereas this is just a relentless growth in the world. 696 01:10:00.240 --> 01:10:07.139 DiPelletier: And let's not forget that the demographics of that are changing in different countries. 697 01:10:07.620 --> 01:10:11.899 DiPelletier: And perhaps not to the betterment of of the future. 698 01:10:12.550 --> 01:10:20.239 DiPelletier: It's easy. Well, I'm saying I am not hearing a voice about that particular factor very strongly. 699 01:10:20.360 --> 01:10:27.040 DiPelletier: When I look at action on that going back to the path. it's pretty hard for us to try to take 700 01:10:27.170 --> 01:10:29.039 DiPelletier: action on 701 01:10:29.090 --> 01:10:33.800 DiPelletier: overpopulation. and I just wondered if you have any comments about that, please. 702 01:10:34.790 --> 01:10:40.089 Stephen: Well, first I have to acknowledge that I it's not something I'm I'm very well 703 01:10:40.570 --> 01:10:45.949 Stephen: versed in. I don't. It's not a topic I've given much attention to. 704 01:10:46.390 --> 01:10:50.030 Stephen: But what I have picked up is that 705 01:10:53.190 --> 01:10:56.659 Stephen: is, that is, that it's it's not across the globe. 706 01:10:56.720 --> 01:11:06.059 Stephen: Populations in developed countries are shrinking. And, in fact, in Japan. They. I've just read something the other day that 707 01:11:06.330 --> 01:11:12.700 Stephen: I think like just last year the population of Japan decreased by that 800,000. 708 01:11:12.880 --> 01:11:26.590 Stephen: And there's a great concern in Japan that if this rate of population decline continues, the society will become increasingly less able to sustain itself. You'll have a smaller and smaller working 709 01:11:26.780 --> 01:11:30.840 Stephen: body of people 710 01:11:31.350 --> 01:11:33.670 Stephen: having to support a growing number of 711 01:11:33.740 --> 01:11:37.209 Stephen: of aging people. And this could be catastrophic in some 712 01:11:37.760 --> 01:11:49.589 Stephen: census for Japan. They're trying to encourage people to have more kids. It seems that. And again, I don't want. I'm I'm not expert on this, and I don't want to make stupid generalizations. 713 01:11:49.660 --> 01:11:54.219 Stephen: but it there does seem to be a correlation between 714 01:11:55.530 --> 01:11:57.629 Stephen: societies that can 715 01:11:57.850 --> 01:12:04.019 Stephen: provide education, health care, particularly for girls and women. 716 01:12:04.300 --> 01:12:11.130 Stephen: certain patriarchal structures, certain endemic forms of injustice and poverty 717 01:12:11.150 --> 01:12:16.780 Stephen: that once these issues are addressed that they seem to be the greatest 718 01:12:16.970 --> 01:12:23.530 Stephen: predict of stabilizing, and then even a falling away of 719 01:12:24.170 --> 01:12:30.610 Stephen: population. There's a population explosion in those countries that unleashed 720 01:12:30.670 --> 01:12:34.540 Stephen: able to provide those provisions for their citizens. 721 01:12:34.730 --> 01:12:35.939 Stephen: and 722 01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:44.269 Stephen: and so forth. So I don't think it's just the I don't think it's true that the the world post population is apparently still growing. But 723 01:12:45.380 --> 01:12:51.500 Stephen: that's not something that will go on exponentially. I don't think. But again, I'm really out of my 724 01:12:51.720 --> 01:12:53.119 Stephen: comfort zone here. 725 01:12:53.330 --> 01:12:56.600 Stephen: But clearly it is an issue. Yeah, absolutely. 726 01:12:57.460 --> 01:12:58.320 Stephen: Thank you. 727 01:12:58.510 --> 01:12:59.390 DiPelletier: Thank you. 728 01:13:00.500 --> 01:13:03.250 Stephen: Bernard's. Next thing we've got the Nora 729 01:13:08.890 --> 01:13:19.130 Stephen: Stephen. I think that you will recognize these words. Buddhism has become to me a philosophy of action and responsibility. 730 01:13:20.200 --> 01:13:29.480 Stephen: I provide. It provides me a framework of value, ideas and practice with new to blah blah blah blah blah blah! So it's a peak from your book 731 01:13:29.580 --> 01:13:36.430 Stephen: after Buddhism. At that time you were presenting the 8 full pass. 732 01:13:36.680 --> 01:13:38.699 Stephen: Let's say the more 733 01:13:38.940 --> 01:13:41.270 Stephen: traditional conventional 734 01:13:41.570 --> 01:13:51.729 Stephen: way, and I embrace this. I see this this way of of of doing, the, of going through the 735 01:13:52.140 --> 01:13:55.110 Stephen: passing through the at full pass. 736 01:13:55.960 --> 01:14:08.729 Stephen: So my point here is, in no way a way to challenge that. You are deconstructing, and we're constricting it in another way but I always 737 01:14:09.460 --> 01:14:23.500 Stephen: so. 3 dimension, even if it is always a wheel, not a sequence whatever. The more the moral dimension, the A/C core dimension and the spiritual dimension. 738 01:14:24.540 --> 01:14:40.130 Stephen: the more dimension which help me to get a vision, to know how much effort, what I could put in achieving this vision going going on the way to to my to achieve my intention. 739 01:14:40.220 --> 01:14:43.269 Stephen: Dsic, I think 740 01:14:43.550 --> 01:14:54.969 Stephen: what I'm doing. I say, what I'm doing, I do. And the mindfulness and and and awareness of consciousness to 741 01:14:55.450 --> 01:14:56.770 measure 742 01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:01.930 Stephen: how much I progress. And well or bad, I progress 743 01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:09.719 Stephen: in the way we we, we have the help, the hateful pass 744 01:15:10.270 --> 01:15:11.330 Stephen: this morning. 745 01:15:11.790 --> 01:15:15.660 Stephen: I missed a little bit the ethical 746 01:15:16.180 --> 01:15:20.279 Stephen: dimension of the sequence of 747 01:15:20.310 --> 01:15:23.320 Stephen: I think I speak. I speak. 748 01:15:23.360 --> 01:15:24.770 Stephen: and I do 749 01:15:25.360 --> 01:15:34.660 Stephen: which to me was always going gradually. I can II have a choice to stop 750 01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:41.139 Stephen: my thinking and not to voice what I sold. and not doing what 751 01:15:41.280 --> 01:15:42.990 Stephen: I said. 752 01:15:43.310 --> 01:15:44.470 Stephen: and 753 01:15:44.920 --> 01:15:52.640 Stephen: putting these 3 things together at the same time in a single dimension, single cluster of of of value. 754 01:15:53.370 --> 01:16:09.379 Stephen: was helping me to, to to have Isaac and yeah to to to progress. The I thought the the the right way. 755 01:16:10.330 --> 01:16:12.569 Stephen: Where do we find? I mean? 756 01:16:13.210 --> 01:16:19.670 Stephen: III have a I have a bit of answer. But where do we find this? 757 01:16:19.800 --> 01:16:27.269 Stephen: The strength of such a cluster in in the new form that you are presenting the 758 01:16:27.860 --> 01:16:34.670 Stephen: hatefulness. No, thank you for that. I think you probably mean 759 01:16:34.760 --> 01:16:44.190 Stephen: the the A 4 path, traditionally, is divided up into Cila samadhi and Pagania morality, Celer 760 01:16:44.310 --> 01:16:47.340 Stephen: samadhi meditation. 761 01:16:47.470 --> 01:16:49.750 Stephen: And Pania was. 762 01:16:50.130 --> 01:17:08.190 Stephen: And II guess you're referring to that. Yeah, you said moral ethics. And something. That is the standard way. But curiously, you don't. I think you don't find that in the in the early sources that distinction and I find it always been a little bit cumbersome 763 01:17:08.260 --> 01:17:16.629 Stephen: personally, but it's is very much, I think, acknowledging that those 3 dimensions are somehow. 764 01:17:17.100 --> 01:17:20.680 Stephen: you know, central as a sequence, as you say. 765 01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:25.859 Stephen: to structure, a sense of the evolution and the development of the part. 766 01:17:26.130 --> 01:17:36.099 Stephen: If you look at this reconfiguration, you'll see in. In fact, it's not such a big departure from that. 767 01:17:37.280 --> 01:17:46.249 Stephen: The the main difference basically is, I've taken the last 2 steps, samadhi, mindfulness and concentration and put them at the beginning. 768 01:17:46.940 --> 01:17:51.059 Stephen: But if you think of the eightfold path as a feedback loop. 769 01:17:51.330 --> 01:17:57.959 Stephen: in other words, it's not just a straight line, beginning and end, but when you get to the end that that brings you back to the beginning again. 770 01:17:57.990 --> 01:18:01.359 Stephen: the sequence is still very much the same as before. 771 01:18:01.590 --> 01:18:06.299 Stephen: So I just. I'm starting at mindfulness rather than starting at 772 01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:08.589 Stephen: view or perspective. 773 01:18:08.710 --> 01:18:10.860 Stephen: So mindfulness. 774 01:18:11.430 --> 01:18:17.389 Stephen: meditation becomes for me the foundation of 775 01:18:17.410 --> 01:18:21.800 Stephen: the capacity to see the world in a new way, have another perspective. 776 01:18:21.820 --> 01:18:26.740 Stephen: and that perspective then leads to imagination. thought 777 01:18:26.980 --> 01:18:43.389 Stephen: and that then becomes the foundation for how we then apply ourselves. We work on our intentions. and there is the beginning of ethics, and that then leads us to how we survive, how we work 778 01:18:43.470 --> 01:18:54.620 Stephen: and how we speak. So that's remaining in much the same sequence. The the the changes are not as as as as major as they might look at first glance, and they still on a very much 779 01:18:54.640 --> 01:19:01.550 Stephen: the the the core of of of contemplation, which is now at the beginning 780 01:19:02.510 --> 01:19:12.749 Stephen: philosophy or punya wisdom which is in view, which is in imagination and ethics which is in application, survival 781 01:19:12.930 --> 01:19:17.559 Stephen: work, and voice. That's how I would now break that up 782 01:19:17.720 --> 01:19:19.679 Stephen: according to those 3 783 01:19:19.770 --> 01:19:26.530 Stephen: primary I agree, but it's more diluted, more diffuse in 784 01:19:26.590 --> 01:19:34.230 Stephen: well, I think so. Actually. In fact, I would also actually argue that we need to think of a ethics rather than morality. 785 01:19:34.430 --> 01:19:37.770 Stephen: and in fact, the whole thing is ethics, as far as I'm concerned. 786 01:19:38.250 --> 01:19:45.780 Stephen: the the Afo path is a modality is a way of describing human flourish. 787 01:19:46.060 --> 01:19:50.839 Stephen: and that is about becoming the kind of person you seek to be. 788 01:19:51.010 --> 01:19:54.020 Stephen: and that is how I would define ethics. 789 01:19:54.270 --> 01:20:06.719 Stephen: though that ethics is bounded is founded on certain moral values. Yes, that's quite clear. but yeah, if you prefer, if you preferred the other way, then stick to that. 790 01:20:07.590 --> 01:20:10.670 Stephen: it's up to you. It's just just a suggestion. 791 01:20:12.360 --> 01:20:21.579 Stephen: Thank you. Oh, so my contribution is just back on the issue of population growth. 792 01:20:21.620 --> 01:20:41.460 Stephen: so this year China saw for the first time ever a decline in population office, I mean, recorded history. And there's actually reason to believe that the population is going to decline quite rapidly, possibly by 50%, by the end of the century worldwide, or in China. 793 01:20:41.680 --> 01:20:45.740 Stephen: which is cause for panic among the the 794 01:20:45.910 --> 01:20:53.870 Stephen: politicians in China because of the impact of that on the economy. And what have you? But yeah, the the trend that you 795 01:20:54.330 --> 01:20:57.290 pointed out is right as the 796 01:20:58.080 --> 01:21:08.730 Stephen: as the prosperity and economic well-being of the country goes up and only associated services. And what have you with that? 797 01:21:09.020 --> 01:21:27.179 Stephen: The population? So the the prediction is actually, population will start to decline. I think you know, before the end of the century, whether or not we have ruined the globe before that happens. Who knows but it used to be a source of consternation for me? Because you know, the 798 01:21:27.430 --> 01:21:43.959 Stephen: I've been on the whole climate change thing for a long time, and I remember reading, even like more than 10 years ago, that on an individual level, the worst thing you can do for the environment is, have a child, you know human lifetime of consumption 799 01:21:43.980 --> 01:21:45.550 Stephen: into the world. 800 01:21:45.910 --> 01:22:05.930 Stephen: Now, if talking about vegetarian vegetarianism makes me unpopular, try talking about, you know, not having children. It's one of those elephants in the room that you just couldn't talk about. But yeah. So it's been a bit of a relief to me actually to to hear that population will decline. 801 01:22:06.280 --> 01:22:07.020 Yeah. 802 01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:20.590 Stephen: thanks, Lori. We've got the Brisbane group, Brisbane group. And then we've got Andy and someone over here, and then back to online, if there's time. 803 01:22:20.840 --> 01:22:24.880 Stephen: And if the questions could be as succinct as possible, too, that would help. 804 01:22:25.370 --> 01:22:50.619 Meg: I'm done. I'm very good at being succinct. So here's here's what I'm going to say, this terrific on the on the voice, and that's the attention that you're giving to finding our voice. And I'm very conscious, even if if we see it in this in this week about you know what's involved in even contributing to this? 805 01:22:50.770 --> 01:23:07.120 Meg: also that. I wanted to say it's really happy women like Rosa and Greta as somebody. That was 806 01:23:07.280 --> 01:23:11.000 Meg: a lovely story to hear about Greta finding 807 01:23:11.050 --> 01:23:16.699 Meg: her voice. The thing I wanted to ask you, Stephen, was that in the leavener's quote. 808 01:23:16.990 --> 01:23:24.220 Meg: where about, you know, in the first look at the face what were saying? Don't kill me 809 01:23:24.320 --> 01:23:30.620 Meg: now as as women. That's not an uncommon you know that kind of speaks to me 810 01:23:30.890 --> 01:23:34.380 Meg: but when I my face 811 01:23:34.740 --> 01:23:40.669 Meg: to another woman, and is my face saying, to another woman. 812 01:23:41.000 --> 01:23:42.269 Meg: diet, kill me! 813 01:23:42.900 --> 01:23:51.189 Meg: It. It feels to me like that's that's something that men are likely to want to set, you know, in this 814 01:23:51.380 --> 01:23:53.559 Meg: all sorts of cultures, having ways of. 815 01:23:53.730 --> 01:23:59.800 Meg: you know, like mariculture, for example, of speaking to that of, you know, dealing with that. 816 01:23:59.850 --> 01:24:01.440 Meg: But when it's 817 01:24:01.880 --> 01:24:03.199 a a woman 818 01:24:04.050 --> 01:24:06.540 Meg: presenting her face to another woman. 819 01:24:07.900 --> 01:24:11.769 Meg: Is that what we're saying to each other? I don't feel that we are, but 820 01:24:12.090 --> 01:24:24.680 Stephen: well, I'm not a woman so clearly. I'm not the best person to ask. The I also feel that language is very, is very strong. 821 01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:33.059 Stephen: and it interestingly, it reflects. For example, you know, the the 10 Commandments. I think it does. 822 01:24:33.090 --> 01:24:38.419 Stephen: At least the Buddhist also start with, do not kill is the first one right? 823 01:24:38.450 --> 01:24:45.599 Stephen: But the whole of the ethic is more broadly framed in the idea of causing harm 824 01:24:45.710 --> 01:24:46.980 Stephen: or hurting. 825 01:24:47.650 --> 01:24:54.799 Stephen: and it might be more gender neutral, let's say to, instead of saying, Do not kill me, say, do not hurt me. 826 01:24:56.240 --> 01:25:07.820 Stephen: Do not hurt me, do not harm me. Do not lie to me. You could almost put all of the presets in that. Do not do not steal from me. Do not abuse me. 827 01:25:08.560 --> 01:25:15.180 Stephen: you know. Do do not lie to me. I think it's it's shorthand, really for 828 01:25:15.950 --> 01:25:24.059 Stephen: a way of talking about ethical injunctions? It's really trying to answer the question, why should we be good? 829 01:25:24.610 --> 01:25:31.119 Stephen: Why should we not harm people? And I think Levinas's answer is a very compelling one is because that 830 01:25:31.300 --> 01:25:36.980 Stephen: is a silent injunction we hear whenever we encounter openly 831 01:25:37.360 --> 01:25:38.600 Stephen: another being. 832 01:25:38.770 --> 01:25:42.739 Stephen: And again, should it really just be humans? Or what about animals, for example? 833 01:25:43.310 --> 01:25:45.259 Stephen: I've often thought about that. 834 01:25:46.790 --> 01:25:54.960 Stephen: Martin Buber has a similar idea about the I Thou relationship which so easily deteriorates into I it. 835 01:25:55.270 --> 01:26:10.760 Stephen: It's again both coming from the Jewish tradition and both recognizing that the primacy of ethics is grounded in the immediate relationship that you have with the other person for boober. It's being constantly aware that you're engaging the other person as you 836 01:26:11.730 --> 01:26:13.690 Stephen: rather than it. 837 01:26:14.310 --> 01:26:16.159 Stephen: and how easily we 838 01:26:16.360 --> 01:26:22.439 Stephen: slip into a language or behaviour that treats the other person as a means to our ends 839 01:26:23.320 --> 01:26:29.030 Stephen: rather than an end in him or herself. which is actually a Kantian idea. 840 01:26:29.540 --> 01:26:35.780 Stephen: So, however, we, I think the bigger picture is not to get caught up in the particular terminology. 841 01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:44.330 Stephen: but to try to understand how ethics is founded on actual interpersonal relationships rather than some 842 01:26:44.470 --> 01:26:46.480 Stephen: some sort of God-given theory 843 01:26:46.660 --> 01:26:48.480 Stephen: or or set of, you know. 844 01:26:48.580 --> 01:26:51.630 Stephen: rules. regulations. 845 01:26:51.850 --> 01:26:57.220 Stephen: principles, that ethics begins in the in the encounter with the other being. 846 01:26:57.680 --> 01:26:59.439 Stephen: That's the key point, I think. 847 01:27:00.450 --> 01:27:02.750 Meg: Thank you. Let's see 848 01:27:04.310 --> 01:27:06.080 Stephen: who is the next. 849 01:27:06.200 --> 01:27:18.070 Stephen: It was me. I'm not sure whether this is gonna have time for a response to whether it'll just be a comment. But I'll leave that up to you. I echo. Go, and some 850 01:27:18.140 --> 01:27:21.199 Stephen: thanks for today's summation. 851 01:27:21.800 --> 01:27:28.860 Stephen: II guess, calling it a summation if you like. And I. There were a lot of new things that came up 852 01:27:29.490 --> 01:27:33.199 Stephen: in this fold of the path today. 853 01:27:34.700 --> 01:27:51.480 Stephen: I think this is beyond a question of semantics. So I'm just going to explain again. As you know, my interest in indigenous Australian cultures. Ii just the the statement when I read last night and when you said it again today about art being useless. 854 01:27:52.470 --> 01:28:01.720 Stephen: that distinction for me had a little tension, because if I think about 855 01:28:02.640 --> 01:28:14.519 Stephen: many examples across the world but but my own practice as as an artist, my first degree many years ago, but also working with indigenous cultures and so forth. 856 01:28:14.950 --> 01:28:16.560 Stephen: much 857 01:28:17.610 --> 01:28:24.409 Stephen: possibly all art has a very important purpose. 858 01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:31.180 Stephen: And in in there's a spectrum. and a lot of 859 01:28:31.360 --> 01:28:46.470 Stephen: elders will will talk about. Oh, that was just a nice picture like that's just design or something, and that could be a way of saying, I actually don't know what that symbol means. But if you look at cave paintings and you 860 01:28:46.940 --> 01:28:48.599 Stephen: are educated about 861 01:28:48.660 --> 01:29:05.890 Stephen: the meaning, it's all about communication. A lot of it's about survival like that is men's business over there. That's where you find water at this time of year. The kangaroos are here. Water lilies are there. So there's a lot of it's basically 862 01:29:06.070 --> 01:29:11.840 Stephen: the word I would use if you wanted an umbrella term is communication 863 01:29:12.230 --> 01:29:23.090 Stephen: about communicating something, and it might be a collective voice of our tribe. It might be a voice, me, but I feel that 864 01:29:23.290 --> 01:29:31.800 Stephen: when I went through art school myself many years ago. We talk about all I don't do art for anyone else. It's just for me. 865 01:29:32.170 --> 01:29:34.210 Stephen: But I even 866 01:29:34.330 --> 01:29:43.470 Stephen: in II even almost doubt that even if the artwork that you make doesn't see the light of day. To what extent are you 867 01:29:43.700 --> 01:29:53.080 Stephen: aiming to communicate something, and in which case I don't see it as being useless. So I don't know whether that's a question or something you should comment about. 868 01:29:53.270 --> 01:29:59.640 Stephen: What I'm trying to get at is, that is, is to recognize that there's a non instrumental function in art. 869 01:29:59.860 --> 01:30:04.419 Stephen: It can't be valued purely in terms of its usefulness. 870 01:30:04.510 --> 01:30:09.759 Stephen: And clearly the examples you give you could might say, you know the 871 01:30:10.070 --> 01:30:16.570 Stephen: sixteenth century paintings of the Madonna and the Child, I mean, they clearly serve a purpose 872 01:30:16.670 --> 01:30:25.140 Stephen: to inspire faith to. you know, making revere God, or whatever it might be, and you can see that in many, many, many forms of art. 873 01:30:25.210 --> 01:30:31.089 Stephen: But what I'm getting at, and perhaps this is a little bit precious. I admit that 874 01:30:31.460 --> 01:30:46.889 Stephen: is that where certain works of art seem to be able to transcend the mere instrumental value of that work. Of course, in aboriginal art. I'm sure it has all kinds of uses in their society. 875 01:30:46.960 --> 01:31:00.540 Stephen: but I as a work of art, it is also something that even if you knew nothing about all of that. it would still speak to you the the point. And I agree with you completely about communication 876 01:31:00.610 --> 01:31:03.980 Stephen: art is, and that's why I use it. It's a form of voice. 877 01:31:04.090 --> 01:31:11.590 Stephen: That's where it's included. There. It's a way in which we communicate. If it didn't communicate. It would be totally 878 01:31:11.830 --> 01:31:15.560 Stephen: in the more general were use of that word 879 01:31:15.700 --> 01:31:23.280 Stephen: but there's something about II hesitate to use words like great art. but 880 01:31:23.880 --> 01:31:32.950 Stephen: like the cave paintings I've seen in France, for example, these for me, are great art, because they communicate to me, even though I don't have a clue what they were originally used for. 881 01:31:33.270 --> 01:31:34.320 Stephen: and that. 882 01:31:34.490 --> 01:31:39.769 Stephen: and and and likewise, you know, Leonardo, or whatever that speaks to me, even though I don't. 883 01:31:39.840 --> 01:31:49.520 Stephen: You know I'm not a Christian. It doesn't speak to me in that religious. There's no religious significance to me, but nonetheless it says something about 884 01:31:49.610 --> 01:31:50.900 Stephen: the core 885 01:31:51.100 --> 01:31:59.469 Stephen: of what it means to be human is communicated through those works. And that's really the point I'm trying to make. Maybe I'm making it to 886 01:31:59.960 --> 01:32:01.590 Stephen: privileged. I don't know. 887 01:32:01.940 --> 01:32:10.510 Stephen: But thank you for that. No, I think it's an important. It is important to recognize that we clearly are operating within a spectrum. Here. 888 01:32:11.580 --> 01:32:16.190 Stephen: I would agree totally that if if heart doesn't communicate it's failed. 889 01:32:17.310 --> 01:32:20.470 Stephen: then it can communicate practical information. 890 01:32:20.600 --> 01:32:27.079 Stephen: or it can support a religious belief. But some of the stuff that's communicating practical information is transformative. 891 01:32:27.250 --> 01:32:48.209 Stephen: And even if I see it, I don't understand what it's communicating, so I don't see it as being useless. But anyway, defining the term useless semantics. I just needed then to nail that down. 892 01:32:48.340 --> 01:32:51.560 Stephen: It is nearly. Is there one more question? Yes, quickly. 893 01:32:53.430 --> 01:33:00.969 Stephen: I'm happy to ask someone 5 min possible should be 894 01:33:02.070 --> 01:33:06.770 Stephen: awesome. 895 01:33:07.000 --> 01:33:22.469 Stephen: It's relates to the point that Bernard made before. I'll try to put it briefly. I noticed, of course, that mindfulness now is at at the top, and voice is is at the end. 896 01:33:22.530 --> 01:33:30.829 Stephen: So the question is, whether the inclusion of mindfulness at the beginning which you have already provided, 2 reasons for. 897 01:33:31.010 --> 01:33:34.310 Stephen: whether it would also serve the purpose 898 01:33:34.390 --> 01:33:37.840 Stephen: of bringing it back to the individual. 899 01:33:38.280 --> 01:33:39.430 Stephen: promoting 900 01:33:39.480 --> 01:33:50.449 Stephen: self-determination and autonomy. Starting from an ethical position that is not moralistic, coming from God or coming from your parents, or coming even from your community community. 901 01:33:50.710 --> 01:33:55.380 Stephen: but giving yourself the opportunity to introspect 902 01:33:56.300 --> 01:34:00.920 Stephen: and to start to identify a seed of ethics. 903 01:34:01.080 --> 01:34:02.900 Stephen: Within yourself. 904 01:34:04.630 --> 01:34:05.750 Stephen: and 905 01:34:06.970 --> 01:34:20.619 Stephen: cause that goes back to all the way to the voice at the end which is to discover yourself, which is to connect with yourself. So I saw the inclusion of mindfulness, the beginning and voice at the end, as extremely 906 01:34:20.890 --> 01:34:25.180 Stephen: conducive to this interpretation that just gave. 907 01:34:25.390 --> 01:34:26.960 Stephen: I'd like to know whether 908 01:34:27.550 --> 01:34:36.400 Stephen: this is something that was in your thinking is in your thinking, has motivated this framing, or this is completely coincidental. 909 01:34:36.490 --> 01:34:38.279 Stephen: What do you have to say today? 910 01:34:38.850 --> 01:34:44.770 Stephen: I honestly can't answer that question, because, to be perfectly honest, I forget 911 01:34:45.530 --> 01:34:58.540 Stephen: these ideas go through so many iterations. I actually forget. This is also a function of my age. I think. Now I forget where these ideas came from, why I started out on these lines of inquiry. And I don't think, actually, that's terribly important. 912 01:34:59.070 --> 01:35:02.070 Stephen: I think the important thing is, does the end product 913 01:35:02.260 --> 01:35:05.949 Stephen: actually work or not, or speak to people or not. 914 01:35:06.180 --> 01:35:07.790 Stephen: and the rest is academic. 915 01:35:10.500 --> 01:35:12.560 Stephen: Thank you. Thank you. 916 01:35:13.150 --> 01:35:14.030 Stephen: And.